Yankee_Jack
Key Player
And there I was hoping for a silver lining.
OTHER FOOTBALL
- Thread starter ivoralljack
- Start date
Well, you never know. There's little wrong with Martin's actual footballing philosophy; but he obviously needs to fine tune it then get the players to execute properly. He has the close season to work intensively on it followed by a pre-season to get everyone singing the same song. Whether or not he will succeed is very much open to debate, and the make-up of our squad, but I would give him the first six games or so to monitor our progress. If we continue as the same old then we should get rid.
As posters know, I champion the appointment of the young Toshack but, even if he became our manager, there's no guarantee that he'd be a success. It would be his first managerial job at this level and he'd be learning as well. However, he has proved his ability with the 'Unders' by winning the Double and, given that we'd have little money to spend on a more proven candidate, he seems as good a choice as any.
As posters know, I champion the appointment of the young Toshack but, even if he became our manager, there's no guarantee that he'd be a success. It would be his first managerial job at this level and he'd be learning as well. However, he has proved his ability with the 'Unders' by winning the Double and, given that we'd have little money to spend on a more proven candidate, he seems as good a choice as any.
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
There's a lot wrong with Martin's Madness. He has his theory, which I don't doubt has some degree of technical merit. Then there's the practice: technical, physical, economic. From the final league table, the collective hammering we received from the top 6 clubs, the meek showings we've had against bottom 4 clubs .... practice has fallen far too short of theory, and there are some practical reasons why.
Let's consider the LCB/RCB role.
Technical: LCB/RCB are required to rove up and down inside channels like LWB/RWB do on the outside channels and have the technical touch to produce quality at both ends of the park.
Physical: LCB/RCB have to have the engines of box to box midfield players - perhaps that's over stating the requirement but they have to have the capacity to work far beyond the traditional CB, to effectively have that level of stamina, and it's tough to be that mobile that often over 90 minutes when a typical CB carries more weight than a typical midfield player ... more mass, covering more distance, demands more energy. With a 46 game season plus cup ties, you need a squad capable of rotating through key positions to keep players fresh and healthy - you need quality players in all of the high impact roles.
Economic: LCB/RCB with these attributes do not come cheap, if they're available at all. It's one thing to produce such players from an academy over several years; it's another to go into the open market and acquire them; or, to convert / upscale existing players to have the required attributes. Do we as a Club have the finances to buy this team for the "now", because we decided that Toshack's academy product (10 years or so in the making) was no longer fit for purpose, and retooling the academy in terms of coaches and player development is the longest of long term projects.
Look at Bennett ... he disappeared in the last third of the season ... an old timer, past his best, but still should have had some fitness for purpose especially when Cabango was crocked. Brad Cooper wasn't determined to be up to the task so they shipped him out on loan. Manning and Lati have embraced the role but they are too often caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, too late in getting back, lack height, and ability in the air to defend crosses etc. In other words, Manning and Lati are being asked to be jacks (small j) of all trades but lack the tools to be a master of any.
And, let's be honest, it's a tough ask to handle a burly, bullying, mobile Championship #9 after you have advanced 30+ yards into the opposition's half then had to make a 60 yard dash to reposition when we yet again gift the ball cheaply to the opposition and they go on the attack. Over 90 minutes that's hard fucking work, and then when you're trying to get air back into your lungs you have to be sharp and strong against their #9. C'mon WTF.
Theory / practice. Martin's madness = Club's lunacy. If you can't buy it, and you can't build it, what's the point. We're playing today, not tomorrow.
The one thing about the Martinez movement was that it could be acquired / implemented in the short term, could be developed easily in the academy, delivered clear competitive advantage, could be easily inherited and continued by successors (Sousa, Rogers, Laudrup). In short, all the key ingredients: strong theory = competitive practice, economically viable, short term gains translating into even greater gains on the long term.
If Martin leaves tomorrow, we've got nothing any coach would want to coach and continue, and our academy would have to be adjusted yet again.
Let's consider the LCB/RCB role.
Technical: LCB/RCB are required to rove up and down inside channels like LWB/RWB do on the outside channels and have the technical touch to produce quality at both ends of the park.
Physical: LCB/RCB have to have the engines of box to box midfield players - perhaps that's over stating the requirement but they have to have the capacity to work far beyond the traditional CB, to effectively have that level of stamina, and it's tough to be that mobile that often over 90 minutes when a typical CB carries more weight than a typical midfield player ... more mass, covering more distance, demands more energy. With a 46 game season plus cup ties, you need a squad capable of rotating through key positions to keep players fresh and healthy - you need quality players in all of the high impact roles.
Economic: LCB/RCB with these attributes do not come cheap, if they're available at all. It's one thing to produce such players from an academy over several years; it's another to go into the open market and acquire them; or, to convert / upscale existing players to have the required attributes. Do we as a Club have the finances to buy this team for the "now", because we decided that Toshack's academy product (10 years or so in the making) was no longer fit for purpose, and retooling the academy in terms of coaches and player development is the longest of long term projects.
Look at Bennett ... he disappeared in the last third of the season ... an old timer, past his best, but still should have had some fitness for purpose especially when Cabango was crocked. Brad Cooper wasn't determined to be up to the task so they shipped him out on loan. Manning and Lati have embraced the role but they are too often caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, too late in getting back, lack height, and ability in the air to defend crosses etc. In other words, Manning and Lati are being asked to be jacks (small j) of all trades but lack the tools to be a master of any.
And, let's be honest, it's a tough ask to handle a burly, bullying, mobile Championship #9 after you have advanced 30+ yards into the opposition's half then had to make a 60 yard dash to reposition when we yet again gift the ball cheaply to the opposition and they go on the attack. Over 90 minutes that's hard fucking work, and then when you're trying to get air back into your lungs you have to be sharp and strong against their #9. C'mon WTF.
Theory / practice. Martin's madness = Club's lunacy. If you can't buy it, and you can't build it, what's the point. We're playing today, not tomorrow.
The one thing about the Martinez movement was that it could be acquired / implemented in the short term, could be developed easily in the academy, delivered clear competitive advantage, could be easily inherited and continued by successors (Sousa, Rogers, Laudrup). In short, all the key ingredients: strong theory = competitive practice, economically viable, short term gains translating into even greater gains on the long term.
If Martin leaves tomorrow, we've got nothing any coach would want to coach and continue, and our academy would have to be adjusted yet again.
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CroJack
Key Player
Best or among the best
- Possession (best),
- Pass accuracy (best),
- Goals scored from open play (third),
- Dribbles per game (seventh),
- Shots out of box (third),
- xGoals from open play (seventh),
- Build up attacks (second).
Mediocre
- Goals scored,
- Shots per game,
- Shots per game against,
- Shots on target per game,
- Dribbled past,
- Number of key passes,
- Shots conceded from open play,
- Shots against from set pieces,
- xGoals against from set pieces,
- Goals conceded from set pieces,
- Passes per defensive action allowed (pressing),
- Number of goal ending high turnovers,
- Number of shots from open play,
Worst or among the worst
- Goals against (conceded),
- Shots inside opposition penalty area,
- Shots inside opposition six yards box,
- Tackles,
- Number of shots from set pieces (worst),
- xGoals from set pieces (worst),
- Goals scored from set pieces (worst),
- xGoals Against from open play,
- Direct speed of passing sequences (worst),
- Direct attacks (third worst),
- Number of high turnovers,
- Number of shot ending high turnovers.
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I'd say there are many things wrong with Martin's footballing philosophy.
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I see what you say, CJ, but those stats cannot take into account the players' failure to execute the game plan properly. For me his BASIC philosophy is fine but I don't think the players have what it takes to deliver what is required on match days. Of course, he makes mistakes and has to up his own coaching standards but I know we would see far better football/results had we better quality players who could implement his tactics. As I said, the proof of progress will come when we start next season - depending what sort of squad we have.
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
Sousa would have achieved automatic promotion with this squad
CroJack
Key Player
He had enough quality players who couldn't execute the game plan that is impossible to be executed.
1. Strikers
Piroe, Obafemi, Cullen, and Whittaker.
Martin took a pretty conservative approach when it comes to strikers during the first half of the season. We played 1-4-4-1 formation when we had the ball, which we always had, with Paterson and Ntcham/Smith behind Piroe. Obi was mostly used as a sub for Piroe. Sometimes it was Cullen or Whittaker. But during that period Martin never tried to change the formation to accomodate more than 2 dedicated, attacking players in the starting XI. We could've played 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, 4-1-2-3, 4-4-2 or even 3-4-1-2. We could've played Paterson on the left wing-back position and Whittaker/Laird on the right with Cullen, Obi and Piroe up front. I bet we would've been better off had we had so many attacking-minded players in the starting XI.
Not many clubs have two players who are able to score 20+ goals per season. But Martin didn't play Obafemi together with Piroe in the first half of the season. He used Obi as sub for Piroe. Up til 29 January 2022 Obi played 339 minutes of football, which is 3.7 full games. In that period he scored 1 goal. From 1 February to the end of the season Obi was a regular starter and scored 11 goals in 20 appearances, which is excellent. 11 goals in 20 appearances = 25 goals in 46 appearances.
Bottom line is that Martin had 4 strikers and he either used them wrongly (first half of the season) or didn't use some of them at all (second half of the season when he sent Cullen and Whittaker out on loan).
2. Attacking midfielders
Dedicated: Paterson (9 goals and 9 assists), Wolf (2 goals and 3 assists), Dhanda, Oli Cooper and Walsh.
Converted: Ntcham (4 goals and 3 assists) and Smith (0 goals and 4 assists).
15 goals and 19 assists from the attacking midfield is a damn good return. I can hardly remember the last time we had so many assists from the attacking midfield, so it can't be said that Martin didn't have players capable of scoring goals and producing many assists there. He also had Dhanda, but refused to play him.
The trouble is that Martin played Paterson, Ntcham, Smith and Piroe too wide in order to help our wing-backs on the flanks, and finally he played a dedicated attacking midfielder Wolf as left wing-back. All of this contributed to our inefficiency in front of goal. Especially in the first half of the season when Piroe was often to find alone in the opposition box. In the second half of the season it helped that we had both Obafemi, Piroe, Paterson and Wolf in the starting XI, but we also conceded a lot of goals, which I am going to analyse later on.
3. Wing-backs
Dedicated: Manning (2 goals and 4 assists), Bidwell (2 goals and 1 assist), Laird (0 goals and 3 assists), Christie (3 goals and 4 assists) and Naughton.
Converted: Latibeaudiere and Smith.
We can't say Martin didn't have enough quality in the wing-back positions. Ok, none of them are as good as Roberts, but still. 8 goals and 12 assists from wing-back positions is not bad at all. Of course, Martin played Manning and Naughton as centre-backs, and Bidwell didn't play much.
4. Central and defensive midfielders
Ntcham, Smith, Fulton, Downes, Grimes and Williams.
Enough quality.
5. Centre-backs
Bennet, Cabango, Cooper, Latibeaudiere, Williams, Burns.
Had we played 4 at the back, or even three at the back, but not pushing two of them (too) wide, we would have had enough quality there. But we know what Martin did.
6. Goalkeepers
Benda, Hamer and Fisher.
Benda has everything to become an excellent goalkeeper, but Martin, by insisting on that stupid tika-taka in our penalty box, managed to make him look like a clown. Hamer and Fisher are simply not good enough.
Last season was a transitional one, so Martin should've used it to develop Benda, and not bench him after a couple of mistakes, then send him out on loan, and finally buy an inferior goalkeeper from League 1.
------------------------------------------
It's too late, so I'm going to analyse Martin's 'game plan' tomorrow.
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
Compared to the previous season with Bidwell/Roberts our WB output under Martin was less in terms of assists.
Bemda’s treatment was unfair. He played early in the season when nobody in front of him wanted the ball. Benda was playing Martin’s ball when everybody else was still getting over the shock of the system. Benda had no options and was too often covering is defenders. Benda needs another chance.
@CroJack … as you pointed out, the technical quality in various positions was present. Mentality is still a question in many players. The system was poorly coached. Rogers and Sousa could have produced a superior return with this squad if the leadership and commitment issues could be resolved.
bottom line … Martin didn’t get the most out of the resources at his disposal. Failing grade
Bemda’s treatment was unfair. He played early in the season when nobody in front of him wanted the ball. Benda was playing Martin’s ball when everybody else was still getting over the shock of the system. Benda had no options and was too often covering is defenders. Benda needs another chance.
@CroJack … as you pointed out, the technical quality in various positions was present. Mentality is still a question in many players. The system was poorly coached. Rogers and Sousa could have produced a superior return with this squad if the leadership and commitment issues could be resolved.
bottom line … Martin didn’t get the most out of the resources at his disposal. Failing grade
Not so sure I'm that pleased about it. They have the resources to be much stiffer opposition for us than Wycombe who are always likely to be a smaller club providing limited opposition. Mackems will be the polar opposite.
CroJack
Key Player
Aye, you're probably right. Unfortunately.Don't worry. If Martin stays we'll be a mid-table club again.
Last day of the Premier League then. My money is on Citeh for the title with hopes that Jurgen will guide Liverpool to a fantastic cup treble by beating Real Madrid in the Champion's League. As for the relegation battle, it looks as though we'll be seeing either Dan or Connor again next season. Leeds have a toughie at Brentford so, providing he stays with Leeds, it looks like Dan will be at the Liberty next season.
CroJack
Key Player
City are behind at the Etihad. Pool just need to score.
Burnley are also one down at home. Interesting.
All brewing up nicely. Just wish they'd stop giving updates on Sky as I want to watch it all unfold on MOTD. Watching Citeh v Villa who're doing a good job on them at the moment. Second half should be full of tension.
Watching Citeh v Villa who're doing a good job on them at the moment. Second half should be full of tension.
Great entertainment today. Managed to avoid a lot of the scores by looking away and using the mute button. But it looks like we'll be seeing Connor back at the Liberty next season because of Leeds' unlikely result at Brentford. Trying not to give too much away here for those who want to see it on MOTD. I recorded Wrexham in their cup final against Bromley and afraid to say they lost having had a 'goal' disallowed for offside in the final moments of the game. Let's hope they win the play-offs to get back in Division Two for next season. I'm sure they'd prefer that.
Behindthegoal
Key Player
It may have passed you by that Dorking Wanderers, one of my boyhood clubs, has been promoted to the National league. Maybe they will emulate my other boyhood club, Sutton, and make it into professional football. Apparently one of their key players this season was …….. Luke Moore!
No not that one. But it had me going for a bit.
No not that one. But it had me going for a bit.
Will never forget his headed winning goal against Citeh!