Corona virus
- Thread starter CroJack
- Start date
Was looking at some interesting figures this morning. Of course the fluidity of these figures is on a rapidly upward trajectory, so what I'm writing is already out of date. The figures relate to cases, resultant deaths and the percentage thereof in Europe.
SWEDEN: 809 cases 0 deaths = 0%
NORWAY: 750 c 1d. = .13%
GERMANY: 3156 c 7 d = .22%
BELGIUM: 556 c 3 d = .54%
HOLLAND: 804 c 10 d = 1.24%
UK: 798 c 11 d = 1.38%
IRELAND: 70 c 1 d = 1.43%
POLAND: 58 c 1 d = 1.72%
FRANCE: 2876 c 61 d = 2.12%
SPAIN: 4334 c 122 d = 2.81%
ITALY: 15113 c 1016 d = 6.72%
What I found interesting is that Northern Europe, particularly Scandanavia have, apart from Germany, significantly less cases and lower mortality rates (again exceping Germany where the mortality rate is only an astonishing .22% in over 3,000 cases) than the Southern European countries.
In Italy, France and Spain, note the high number of cases and the higher % incidence of deaths as compared to their northern neighbours. It would be an acceptable assumption to say that, the warmer the country, the more risk of contracting the virus. This is in line with accepted thinking that cold temperatures reduce the rate of how fast a virus spreads.
As for their respective health services, having personal knowledge and experience of the Spanish system, I can say hand on heart that in many ways it is actually superior to our own NHS. I found them first class and their prompt action and expert ongoing attention, undoubtedly saved the life of my late partner Linda and gave her another 12 years on this Earth.
France is a country where I have no personal experience of their health service but two of my closest friends emigrated there some years ago. I can tell you that they were in raptures about the treatment they receive. Upon registering with a local GP, they were both asked to attend surgery for their doctor to give them an extensive health 'MOT'. Karen was fine but John had a serious underlying problem that had been undiagnosed by the NHS, so he was immediately referred to a specialist and the problem was dealt with in short order. Every year since, they attend their GP's surgery for a similar examination and any problem which is discovered is treated asap. Can you envisage this with our NHS? No!! Neither can I. By the way, I have met their doctor several times when visiting and she is a charming, highly intelligent woman. I met her because whenever she's in the area she pops in to see my friends for coffee, a chat and to check all is OK. In comparison, my own GP here is also a charming, highly intelligent woman but she will NEVER visit my home and I have to book an appointment a month in advance unless something serious occurs. I will say nothing here about the series of cock-ups committed by the NHS that nearly killed me. Ignorance and negligence doesn't begin to describe it!!!!!
As for Italy, I have no personal experience to call on but I frequently read good things in the press. And, in finishing, I lived in South Africa for a while in the late 70s, a country that many people believed was backward. All I will say for now is that I had the shock of my life. Their medical system was LIGHT YEARS ahead of ours including dental, surgery, relationship with GPs and, in the case of my wife, maternity. It was incredible to experience and when I returned to this country, medically speaking it was tantamount to returning to the Dark Ages!!
SWEDEN: 809 cases 0 deaths = 0%
NORWAY: 750 c 1d. = .13%
GERMANY: 3156 c 7 d = .22%
BELGIUM: 556 c 3 d = .54%
HOLLAND: 804 c 10 d = 1.24%
UK: 798 c 11 d = 1.38%
IRELAND: 70 c 1 d = 1.43%
POLAND: 58 c 1 d = 1.72%
FRANCE: 2876 c 61 d = 2.12%
SPAIN: 4334 c 122 d = 2.81%
ITALY: 15113 c 1016 d = 6.72%
What I found interesting is that Northern Europe, particularly Scandanavia have, apart from Germany, significantly less cases and lower mortality rates (again exceping Germany where the mortality rate is only an astonishing .22% in over 3,000 cases) than the Southern European countries.
In Italy, France and Spain, note the high number of cases and the higher % incidence of deaths as compared to their northern neighbours. It would be an acceptable assumption to say that, the warmer the country, the more risk of contracting the virus. This is in line with accepted thinking that cold temperatures reduce the rate of how fast a virus spreads.
As for their respective health services, having personal knowledge and experience of the Spanish system, I can say hand on heart that in many ways it is actually superior to our own NHS. I found them first class and their prompt action and expert ongoing attention, undoubtedly saved the life of my late partner Linda and gave her another 12 years on this Earth.
France is a country where I have no personal experience of their health service but two of my closest friends emigrated there some years ago. I can tell you that they were in raptures about the treatment they receive. Upon registering with a local GP, they were both asked to attend surgery for their doctor to give them an extensive health 'MOT'. Karen was fine but John had a serious underlying problem that had been undiagnosed by the NHS, so he was immediately referred to a specialist and the problem was dealt with in short order. Every year since, they attend their GP's surgery for a similar examination and any problem which is discovered is treated asap. Can you envisage this with our NHS? No!! Neither can I. By the way, I have met their doctor several times when visiting and she is a charming, highly intelligent woman. I met her because whenever she's in the area she pops in to see my friends for coffee, a chat and to check all is OK. In comparison, my own GP here is also a charming, highly intelligent woman but she will NEVER visit my home and I have to book an appointment a month in advance unless something serious occurs. I will say nothing here about the series of cock-ups committed by the NHS that nearly killed me. Ignorance and negligence doesn't begin to describe it!!!!!
As for Italy, I have no personal experience to call on but I frequently read good things in the press. And, in finishing, I lived in South Africa for a while in the late 70s, a country that many people believed was backward. All I will say for now is that I had the shock of my life. Their medical system was LIGHT YEARS ahead of ours including dental, surgery, relationship with GPs and, in the case of my wife, maternity. It was incredible to experience and when I returned to this country, medically speaking it was tantamount to returning to the Dark Ages!!
CroJack
Key Player
There are two reasons for that..
1. The vast majority of infected people in Scandinavia and Germany are for now young, rich and healty people who were on ski holidays in Italy.
2. High mortality rate in Italy can be explained by a) the number of old people infected and b) overstretched health care system.
With other words, in Italy, old and already sick people are not given proper medical care. Triage. They simply let them die. We'll see the same mortality rate in other European countries when they reach the critical number of infected.
By the way, North Italy has one of the best and most modern health care system in the world. It's not so much about the quality of the health care system, it's all about the huge numbers of critical patients.
That's why I'm mad. The governments across Europe have been reactive, not pro-active. They didn't close the borders a month ago and they didn't implement extraordinary measures like closing the borders and qarantine to all who are entering our countries. Instead, and like in Britain, they have so called herd imunity strategy. They will allow as many infected as possible in hope that their citizens develop imunity.
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CroJack
Key Player
New Zealand PM:
"We have two choices as a nation. One is to let Covid-19 roll-on, and brace. The second is to go hard on measures to keep it out, and stamp it out. I make no apology for choosing the second path. New Zealanders' public health comes first."
A tranche of "far-reaching and unprecedented" travel restrictions means New Zealand now has some of the toughest border restrictions in the world to help prevent the spread of the coronavirus.
From midnight tonight, any person from any country, excluding the Pacific islands, will be required to self-isolate for 14 days upon arrival to the country and Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has encouraged all New Zealanders to avoid all non-essential travel overseas.
"We have two choices as a nation. One is to let Covid-19 roll-on, and brace. The second is to go hard on measures to keep it out, and stamp it out. I make no apology for choosing the second path. New Zealanders' public health comes first."
A tranche of "far-reaching and unprecedented" travel restrictions means New Zealand now has some of the toughest border restrictions in the world to help prevent the spread of the coronavirus.
From midnight tonight, any person from any country, excluding the Pacific islands, will be required to self-isolate for 14 days upon arrival to the country and Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has encouraged all New Zealanders to avoid all non-essential travel overseas.
CroJack
Key Player
"Your house is on fire, and the people whom you have trusted with your care are not trying to put it out. Even though they knew it was coming, and could see what happened to the neighbours as they were overwhelmed with terrifying speed, the UK government has inexplicably chosen to encourage the flames, in the misguided notion that somehow they will be able to control them.
When I first heard about this, I could not believe it. I research and teach the evolution and epidemiology of infectious disease at Harvard’s Chan School of Public Health. My colleagues here in the US, even as they are reeling from the stumbling response of the Donald Trump administration to the crisis, assumed that reports of the UK policy were satire – an example of the wry humour for which the country is famed. But they are all too real."
Excellent article i Guardian:
I’m an epidemiologist. When I heard about Britain’s ‘herd immunity’ coronavirus plan, I thought it was satire | William Hanage
When I first heard about this, I could not believe it. I research and teach the evolution and epidemiology of infectious disease at Harvard’s Chan School of Public Health. My colleagues here in the US, even as they are reeling from the stumbling response of the Donald Trump administration to the crisis, assumed that reports of the UK policy were satire – an example of the wry humour for which the country is famed. But they are all too real."
Excellent article i Guardian:
I’m an epidemiologist. When I heard about Britain’s ‘herd immunity’ coronavirus plan, I thought it was satire | William Hanage
CroJack
Key Player
"Why does soap work so well on the SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus and indeed most viruses? Because it is a self-assembled nanoparticle in which the weakest link is the lipid (fatty) bilayer. A two part thread about soap, viruses and supramolecular chemistry."
Thread by @PalliThordarson: 1/25 Part 1 - Why does soap work so well on the SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus and indeed most viruses? Because it is a self-assembled nanopart…
Interesting.
Thread by @PalliThordarson: 1/25 Part 1 - Why does soap work so well on the SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus and indeed most viruses? Because it is a self-assembled nanopart…
Interesting.
Read the following article this morning. Given my age and health circumstances this might well affect me and Hector has already started to organise a petition as his walkies could be under severe threat! 
Take a look at the part after they talk about a £1,000 fine. Bit drastic that don't you think?? I totally cracked up when I read it. I think I'd rather give a blood sample than have my throat and nose swapped!!!
Coronavirus: Brits face £1,000 fines or being detained if they refuse self-isolation
Take a look at the part after they talk about a £1,000 fine. Bit drastic that don't you think?? I totally cracked up when I read it. I think I'd rather give a blood sample than have my throat and nose swapped!!! Coronavirus: Brits face £1,000 fines or being detained if they refuse self-isolation
CroJack
Key Player
"Seven days before Donald Trump took office, his aides faced a major test: the rapid, global spread of a dangerous virus in cities like London and Seoul, one serious enough that some countries were imposing travel bans. In a sober briefing, Trump’s incoming team learned that the disease was an emerging pandemic — a strain of novel influenza known as H9N2 — and that health systems were crashing in Asia, overwhelmed by the demand. “Health officials warn that this could become the worst influenza pandemic since 1918,” Trump’s aides were told. Soon, they heard cases were popping up in California and Texas.
The briefing was intended to hammer home a new, terrifying reality facing the Trump administration, and the incoming president’s responsibility to protect Americans amid a crisis. But unlike the coronavirus pandemic currently ravaging the globe, this 2017 crisis didn’t really happen — it was among a handful of scenarios presented to Trump’s top aides as part of a legally required transition exercise with members of the outgoing administration of Barack Obama.
And in the words of several attendees, the atmosphere was “weird” at best, chilly at worst.
POLITICO obtained documents from the meeting and spoke with more than a dozen attendees to help provide the most detailed reconstruction of the closed-door session yet. It was perhaps the most concrete and visible transition exercise that dealt with the possibility of pandemics, and top officials from both sides -- whether they wanted to be there or not — were forced to confront a whole-of-government response to a crisis. The Trump team was told it could face specific challenges, such as shortages of ventilators, anti-viral drugs and other medical essentials, and that having a coordinated, unified national response was “paramount” — warnings that seem eerily prescient given the ongoing coronavirus crisis."
Read more here:
Before Trump’s inauguration, a warning: ‘The worst influenza pandemic since 1918'
The briefing was intended to hammer home a new, terrifying reality facing the Trump administration, and the incoming president’s responsibility to protect Americans amid a crisis. But unlike the coronavirus pandemic currently ravaging the globe, this 2017 crisis didn’t really happen — it was among a handful of scenarios presented to Trump’s top aides as part of a legally required transition exercise with members of the outgoing administration of Barack Obama.
And in the words of several attendees, the atmosphere was “weird” at best, chilly at worst.
POLITICO obtained documents from the meeting and spoke with more than a dozen attendees to help provide the most detailed reconstruction of the closed-door session yet. It was perhaps the most concrete and visible transition exercise that dealt with the possibility of pandemics, and top officials from both sides -- whether they wanted to be there or not — were forced to confront a whole-of-government response to a crisis. The Trump team was told it could face specific challenges, such as shortages of ventilators, anti-viral drugs and other medical essentials, and that having a coordinated, unified national response was “paramount” — warnings that seem eerily prescient given the ongoing coronavirus crisis."
Read more here:
Before Trump’s inauguration, a warning: ‘The worst influenza pandemic since 1918'
Speaking as one of those 'thick cunts' who read the Sun I'm quoting figures today to compare with those I posted earlier which were:
We NOW have:
SWEDEN: 1121 c 7 d = .62%
NORWAY: 1334 c 3 d = .22%
GERMANY: 7241 c 15 d =.21%
BELGIUM: 1058 c 10 d = .95%
HOLLAND: 1413 c 24 d = 1.7%
UK: 1543 c 55 d = 3.56%
IRELAND: c 170 d 2 = 1.12%
POLAND: 177 c 4 d = 2.26%
FRANCE: 6633 c 148 d = 2.23%
SPAIN: 9682 c 342 d = 3.53%
ITALY: 27980 c 2158 d = 7.71%
PORTUGAL: 331 c 1 d = .30% (New figures)
Interesting things to note:
Germany have had 5698 MORE cases than UK but 40 FEWER deaths!
Norway have had just 209 fewer cases but 52 fewer deaths.
Holland have had only 130 cases less but 31 fewer deaths.
I suppose you can kick the stats this, that and the other way but I'm sure that every resource in every country is being thrown at the problem. Let's hope that they come up with something tangible very soon. And I wish all posters, your family and friends a safe and healthy life.
I'm quoting figures today to compare with those I posted earlier which were:We NOW have:
SWEDEN: 1121 c 7 d = .62%
NORWAY: 1334 c 3 d = .22%
GERMANY: 7241 c 15 d =.21%
BELGIUM: 1058 c 10 d = .95%
HOLLAND: 1413 c 24 d = 1.7%
UK: 1543 c 55 d = 3.56%
IRELAND: c 170 d 2 = 1.12%
POLAND: 177 c 4 d = 2.26%
FRANCE: 6633 c 148 d = 2.23%
SPAIN: 9682 c 342 d = 3.53%
ITALY: 27980 c 2158 d = 7.71%
PORTUGAL: 331 c 1 d = .30% (New figures)
Interesting things to note:
Germany have had 5698 MORE cases than UK but 40 FEWER deaths!
Norway have had just 209 fewer cases but 52 fewer deaths.
Holland have had only 130 cases less but 31 fewer deaths.
I suppose you can kick the stats this, that and the other way but I'm sure that every resource in every country is being thrown at the problem. Let's hope that they come up with something tangible very soon. And I wish all posters, your family and friends a safe and healthy life.
The Blobster
Prediction Champ
Given our circumstances the wife and I are following advice to remain at home , we do however require food shopping so today we went on line for home delivery.
We tried asda, Tesco and sainsbury's, the earliest delivery date available and the store with the most goods available was asda , the delivery date is Saturday 28th March!
We've gone with that but don't hold out hope that all the goods will be available at that date .
It's my belief that the same selfish bastards who are randomly holidaying and bringing the bug into our country are now hogging the home delivery service.
Imo the govt need to introduce a law that only those who are vulnerable and staying at home can use these delivery services.
Thankfully we are well stocked so waiting till 28th wont hurt us but we are already thinking of placing an order for delivery for the first week of April.
This will only get worse as the figures rise but fat chance of our govt doing anything to alleviate the situation.
We tried asda, Tesco and sainsbury's, the earliest delivery date available and the store with the most goods available was asda , the delivery date is Saturday 28th March!
We've gone with that but don't hold out hope that all the goods will be available at that date .
It's my belief that the same selfish bastards who are randomly holidaying and bringing the bug into our country are now hogging the home delivery service.
Imo the govt need to introduce a law that only those who are vulnerable and staying at home can use these delivery services.
Thankfully we are well stocked so waiting till 28th wont hurt us but we are already thinking of placing an order for delivery for the first week of April.
This will only get worse as the figures rise but fat chance of our govt doing anything to alleviate the situation.
CroJack
Key Player
This ^^^.
Blobs, I have to self isolate but, because I'm on my own, I need to go shopping on occasion. Must admit that when I do, I tend to stockpile on a SENSIBLE basis to save me going out too often. But here's the thing: seeing as I HAVE to go out anyway from time to time, I'd be happy to pick up any essentials that you might need and drop them off. If you get desperate then let me know. And I'll be happy to do the same for anyone else on here. I take as many precautions as I can including wearing gloves if I have to handle trolleys etc although I use my own bags as far as possible.
CroJack
Key Player
I don't blame them. I blame our goverments.
CroJack
Key Player
Remember to either wash or desinficate your gloves when you come home. I dip my gloves in boiling water for ten seconds.
This is from the WHO site:
"Heat at 56°C kills the SARS coronavirus at around 10000 units per 15 min (quick reduction)."
100° kills it instantly.
I use disposable gloves that I keep for 'shitty' jobs around the house. But when I wear normal gloves I do disinfect them.
The Blobster
Prediction Champ
That's a kind offer mate but I wouldn't put anyone else at risk !
We had the answer to panic buying 80 years ago, they were called ration books, where everyone got their fair share, all propotioned to the amount of family members. If this virus continues for the amount of time some are estimating, this will introduce the scourge of the 1940's, the black market where the elderly were conned out of their pensions and savings for bare essentials.
