CAN WE PULL UP THE WEEDS ?

[ivoralljack]

We won't get anywhere as long as we have passive strikers like Yates and Cullen in our starting XI. Piroe doesn't wait for others to create chances for him. He creates chances for himself by dropping deep, by making himself available to receive the ball, by being involved in the build-up much more than Cullen and Yates... Although I agree that Cullen is much better at the build-up than Yates, it's still not enough.

Cullen works his socks off and when he's pressing you frequently see him waving others up to join him in a collective. He shouldn't have to do that: they should be doing it of their own volition. And, in my experience, one major reason why players don't press is that they're not fit enough to get back if the press fails. Seen it so often during my playing days, so I know what goes on when I watch it.

I agree that Cullen doesn't create a great deal for himself as I've often posted before but you need to make the most of the players' strengths. Cullen is a poacher, a very good one, so we HAVE to get the ball into the box far more often than we do. It's when he's at his best and for the life of me I can't understand why we don't do it when he's playing. If Cameron Toshack was our manager he'd make damned sure that Cullen did get that service. And we'd score a lot more goals. Some stats from that shameful display this evening:

POSSESSION: 42-58 SHOTS: 7-13 OT: 1-8 CORNERS: 5-2 FOULS: 11-10 GOALS: 0-4


Swansea head coach Luke Williams said: "I know we were facing outstanding opposition but without a doubt we lacked belief.

"We were too hesitant and didn't compete properly. We were set up to press but were too timid to apply anywhere near enough pressure on them and paid the price.

"We came out second best too many times and with space, quality players will unpick you."

The manager is responsible for all these things and is handsomely paid to see that his game plan is enacted. If the players fail to implement said game plan then heads must roll; including that of the manager if he's not good enough to get his message across. We were a complete fcuking shambles tonight and both the team and the manager had better take a long hard look at themselves to see if they're good enough. On tonight's evidence, none of them are.

 

[CroJack]

As previously mentioned, we should have parked the bus and attempted to counter-attack. Ronald, Placheta, Cullen, Patterson, and Tymon could have led the attack, while the remaining five players should have remained in our half. There was no need to play a high line against players with a lot of pace.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

Williams’ admissions were another form of capitulation. I don’t see a way forward if this is it. Clearly, those that can’t or won’t play with pride and determination have to sit in preference for those that will sweat blood to make a difference.

grimes has to go as captain. If Roy Keane had been on that field few would have an asshole left to sit on at half time. Over the last few seasons we have always had at least one player on the field that acquires the monicker Mr Invisible or is thought of as anonymous. The players come and go, but the one constant is Grimes, We’ve too often played a man short with 11 on the field. It can’t go on, and now the disease has spread through the team. it has to stop. Williams has to throw the circuit breaker now. It has to start with him. It begins with Grimes, replace him with Allen for the rest of the season as captain and the starting pivot. Build around that with players will to put body on the line. Recruit a team captain that has C for Character, and then go from there.

it’s pathetic. And it has to stop.

 

[CroJack]

Williams’ admissions were another form of capitulation.

Williams is exaggerating and he shouldn't blame the players too much because it was his tactics and line-up. So what really happened? Leeds counter attacked in numbers (and they were good at it) and exploited the weaknesses of our high back line. That was Luke Williams' fault, not the players'. Their first goal came from a lucky deflection. The second goal was probably offside (but see 1). Cabango got the nutmeg for their third goal, which shouldn't happen.
Most of our crosses and corners were poor. Either over-hit, or low when they should have been high, or high when they should have been low. All of this has nothing to do with determination, but rather with a lack of skill and poor decision-making.

 

[Victoria Swan]

lack of skill and poor decision-making

Plus no pace in counter attack (or even on defense to keep up with their counter-attack). Pace, skill and guile - Leeds were streets ahead of us on all three everywhere on the field, even on the wing with Ronald.

Aspiring to be a pacey team ready to pounce from a high line does not make it happen however much you keep hoping that's what the players will deliver for you. We simply are not that team with these players and that's what Leeds made clear to us. Let's stop forcing a strategy on the team that doesn't fit the players and start finding a strategy that does fit the players we have. And with lumbering speed in Cabango, inexperience in Nathan Wood, aging legs in Naughton, and neither Tymon nor Humphries able/willing to track back at any pace it sure as hell isn't playing a high line.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

@Victoria Swan ... different take on the square pegs / round holes approach to coaching.

 

[CroJack]

Leeds were streets ahead of us

We are talking about a team that normally has Piroe and Roberts on the bench.

Leeds are in a different league, just like Leicester and Southampton.

Our season under Williams starts on Saturday.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

As @Victoria Swan points out, we continue to try play a style that the squad is ill-equipped to handle. To turnover the squad to meet Williams' preferred style is going to take multiple transfer windows and money. And ... Williams' may not survive that process. Meanwhile, asking this squad of players to play outside of the scope of what they might be able to do exceedingly well is as dumb a thing as any coach can do.

I'm going to revert back to Sheehan's ability to get a tune of this squad. Now, Williams has had a tough run of fixtures, but we haven't been losing games to the top clubs, we've been shellacked. There's a difference. We've played like we don't belong and worse according to Williams believe that we don't belong. That's a criminal admission.

I came across a Laudrup interview today in which he discusses what a team needs to do when playing clearly much stronger clubs and achieving success .... Liverpool, Chelsea on the way to the League Cup Final. He makes some pertinent comments that need to be applied to our situation. Laudrup's team were not in the same class as the 'Pool, Chelsea, Arsenal, City and United of the day, but there was no capitulation. There was resilience. There was organization. And this from a manager who was one of the best forwards of his age.

Listen to minute 3:50 through to 8:00. We have no idea how to suffer? How do defend? How to do the work and what work to do to stop a dominant opponent from capitalizing on their dominance. We have to be setup not to concede - not just goals, but space and time.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

I don't believe that these fixtures were impossible. These fixtures were not just losses, the manner of the losses are indictments.

Leeds beat us better than they have beaten any other team they have played this season. Leeds' other biggest victories were against Rotherham 3-0 @ home, Ipswich 4-0 @ home, Cardiff 0-3 @ away, Millwall 0-3 away. All other matches were within a goal or two.

Leicester hammered Stoke 0-5 away and Plymouth 4-0 at home. All other wins were by 1 or 2 goals. And you can find similar scenarios with Soton and Ipswich. Soton's biggest victory of the season was against us. Ipswich's wins have all been by reasonably respectable scores.

The top 3 have been humiliating us.

 

[jackodiamonds]

Williams's self-belief and dedication to his ideals makes him seem a little naïve. Had Swansea played those difficult fixtures with a more pragmatic mindset, they would have set-up to defend and almost certainly still lost, but done so in a less humiliating way. Nobody would take notice of a 1-0 or 2-0 defeat, but the cricket scores Swansea have recently suffered are publicly embarrassing.

I don't think it's fair on the players, and it can't be good for morale but I understand where Williams is coming from. If he takes the pragmatic approach in those games then that's four fewer games his team spend learning how to play the football he wants them to play. Four games where they switch to a face-saving plan B which will do nothing to advance the teams fluency in his chosen system, and which would end up with the same result anyway. He would rather take the heavy loss knowing his players spent another 90 mins learning his system, than take a respectable loss having put his system on ice for another week.

I think it is still better to use a plan B simply as a damage-limitation exercise, because the damage being limited is not just points in the table: it's morale, confidence, and public perception. A team that loses to Leeds or Saints 1-0 on a given week might even be seen as favourites heading into a more evenly-matched game the following week for having held a top team to a low scoreline. A team that loses 4-0 or 5-0 will be seen as no-hopers no matter the opposition, and might even be seen as underdogs against weaker opposition just because of the scale of such defeats.

That kind of self-inflicted media pressure must be difficult for the players to tune out, which is why I think Williams's first test is preserving the squad's morale through these difficult fixtures knowing he is asking them to play in a way which is suicidal given the disparity in squad ability and fluency, for the sake of learning his system more quickly. He runs the risk of losing a good portion of the dressing room, too, but that's the price for living on the line between brave and stupid.

 

[jackodiamonds]

When Williams talks about the players being too timid, I imagine this is the kind of thing he is talking about. Six Swansea players standing still watching Gray get ready to pop a through ball to Gnonto who is unmarked and unnoticed. This is moments before Gnonto scored his first and Leeds third.

Fulton and Wood, who are nearest Gnonto, seem to have no idea he is there.

Placheta is the only one trying to press Gray, but he's still 10 feet away.

So what is this? It's not pressing because Gray has 10 yards of space. It's not marking - zonal or otherwise - because there is no sense in both of Swansea's deep mids, both left flank players, one centre back and one striker all congregating in the same area to basically watch Gray make a pass.

I imagine the Swans players are meant to be heavily pressing as a unit, "hunting in packs", which can be extremely effective if done properly, but that requires intensity. As Williams said, they are too timid. If they are trying to play this way without guts then no wonder they are gifting so many goals.

This is so embarrassing. Five professional footballers ball-watching like kids (I excuse Placheta for at least being active in trying to close Gray down). None of them even notice Gnonto until after the ball is played and they are too far behind it to do anything.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

This is school boy football at its worst ... a picture paints a thousand words and in that photo half of them are fuck or a derivative. And the cricket scores have now landed us with a GD = -12. Ipswich will no doubt further worsen that number.

Williams' first test is not to maintain squad morale but to maintain their confidence, which has to be close to crashing. The players thought Sheehan was brilliant and now they have THIS, which is even beginning to make Duffer look successful.

As you said @jackodiamonds it's not marking, it's not pressing and it's not getting goal side. In the photo, 3 Leeds' players are on the touch line drawing the focus of 6 Swans players. The guy on the ball is waiting for the biscuits to arrive for his tea. Meanwhile, there are 3 Leeds' players in-field with oceans' of space and goal side and on-side of our 6.

Seeing this, how did any of our lot ever get past the U-10. There are some things that you shouldn't be able to coach out of players but plain old fashioned common sense and 10+ years of pragmatic football coaching of the basics through development programs as gone AWOL.

Not even under BoBo did we manage to play such crap.

 

[ivoralljack]

Further evidence of our milksop performance is as follows:

PASSES: 419 - 620

COMPLETED: 359 - 558

SUCCESS: 85.6% - 90%

TOUCHES IN OPPOSITION BOX: 15-35

The 'touches' stat is the reason why our strikers are starved of chances. We just never seem to get the ball into the box often enough and this in other games besides Leeds. Our midfield are lacking both in creation and support.