Yankee_Jack
Key Player
Just goes to show what a waste of 2 points this was
Forrest
- Thread starter Borini
- Start date
CroJack
Key Player
Agree on all apart from "the worst performance in years...". We've seen many "worst performances in years" in the past 3-4 years.
You are right about Forrest. They are nothing special, but neither we are. And I am not surprised. @Mithrandir pointed out that we are the squad that has played most in our own third this season. There are some other stats that show how poor we are, and what you see on the pitch is what stats say about us. For example:
1. Shots per game. Worst.
2. Possession % . We are in the bottom half.
3. Goals scored. We are in the bottom half.
4. Shots on target. We are third worst.
5. Shots from inside the penalty area. Second worst.
6. Getting dispossesed. Second worst.
7. Key passes per game. Fourth worst.
8. Fouls per game. Worst.
Mithrandir
Key Player
Hate to say it but this is looking like a Paul Clement 2.0 more than anything. Very happy with the results all things considered so far but extremely disappointed in the style of football we've seen from an "attacking" manager so far.Agree on all apart from "the worst performance in years...". We've seen many "worst performances in years" in the past 3-4 years.
You are right about Forrest. They are nothing special, but neither we are. And I am not surprised. @Mithrandir pointed out that we are the squad that has played most in our own third this season. There are some other stats that show how poor we are, and what you see on the pitch is what stats say about us. For example:
1. Shots per game. Worst.
We had the same problem last season.
2. Possession % . We are in the bottom half.
3. Goals scored. We are in the bottom half.
4. Shots on target. We are third worst.
5. Shots from inside the penalty area. Second worst.
6. Getting dispossesed. Second worst.
7. Key passes per game. Fourth worst.
8. Fouls per game. Worst.
The Blobster
Prediction Champ
One positive from today was the midfield performance from Grimes , worked hard and did well on and off the ball.
Negatives , McKay, should hang his head in shame for a total non performance , didn't seem interested at all , hide and seek champion !
Declan John was as negative as Taylor at his worst and his defending was weak.Much prefer Ollson.
Naughton gave an effective energetic display in midfield.
Time for Potter to go 3 at the back with wing backs in front of them.
We lie too deep when playing 4 3 3 inviting teams on to us. Time for a rethink !
Negatives , McKay, should hang his head in shame for a total non performance , didn't seem interested at all , hide and seek champion !
Declan John was as negative as Taylor at his worst and his defending was weak.Much prefer Ollson.
Naughton gave an effective energetic display in midfield.
Time for Potter to go 3 at the back with wing backs in front of them.
We lie too deep when playing 4 3 3 inviting teams on to us. Time for a rethink !
I had to listen as my computer got a virus (hopefully now okay) and the comms were pretty downbeat about our performance, with good reason it seems. Great opportunity wasted today to really hoist ourselves up the table. If we repeat this sort of display against Boro and Stoke, we'll get sod all.
Mckay seems to be a waste of space - certainly a waste of a position that could be occupied by a better player. Any of Routs, Narsingh or Dyer would offer a greater starting threat, particularly when you you think that Mckay had incentive to put on a show against his former team today. That old war horse Kenny Burns (more guts in his big toe than McKay has in his entire body) got it right pre-match when he said that the key to playing against Mckay was being physical because he didn't like that sort of stuff. Stopped short of actually calling him a coward but you can draw your own conclusions.
This team needs more backbone and more physicality, which I've been saying for a while now. They are too easily intimidated and brushed off the ball by stronger more aggressive players and are NOT good enough to bypass this with skilful play. Having Fer in midfield addresses this to a degree but I can't wait to get Bony back so he can start dishing out some bruises of his own on our behalf. At least he can hold up the ball in the final third to get our runners in and our stats in this area should be vastly improved after he's had a few games under his belt. Let's hope we are still in contention near the top when this happens.
PS: Got my car back from its MOT test this aver and it passed! At least I had some good news,
Mckay seems to be a waste of space - certainly a waste of a position that could be occupied by a better player. Any of Routs, Narsingh or Dyer would offer a greater starting threat, particularly when you you think that Mckay had incentive to put on a show against his former team today. That old war horse Kenny Burns (more guts in his big toe than McKay has in his entire body) got it right pre-match when he said that the key to playing against Mckay was being physical because he didn't like that sort of stuff. Stopped short of actually calling him a coward but you can draw your own conclusions.
This team needs more backbone and more physicality, which I've been saying for a while now. They are too easily intimidated and brushed off the ball by stronger more aggressive players and are NOT good enough to bypass this with skilful play. Having Fer in midfield addresses this to a degree but I can't wait to get Bony back so he can start dishing out some bruises of his own on our behalf. At least he can hold up the ball in the final third to get our runners in and our stats in this area should be vastly improved after he's had a few games under his belt. Let's hope we are still in contention near the top when this happens.
PS: Got my car back from its MOT test this aver and it passed! At least I had some good news,
CroJack
Key Player
Of course, it's not all bad.
1. Apart from left-back position our defence has been excellent. Mulder, Rodon, Van der Hoorn and Roberts have been excellent. But left-back position is still our weak link. Both Olsson and John have been bad passers and both get easily dispossessed.
2. Our passing accuracy has been good, 75,9 %, but we are still far away from Swanselona's passing accuracy.
3. We do tackle.
4. We are good at counter-attacking.
5. When we create chances we are clinical, we score from them.
6. We are pretty good at aerial duels.
7. We are pretty good dribblers.
8. Celina is an excellent football player.
1. Apart from left-back position our defence has been excellent. Mulder, Rodon, Van der Hoorn and Roberts have been excellent. But left-back position is still our weak link. Both Olsson and John have been bad passers and both get easily dispossessed.
2. Our passing accuracy has been good, 75,9 %, but we are still far away from Swanselona's passing accuracy.
3. We do tackle.
4. We are good at counter-attacking.
5. When we create chances we are clinical, we score from them.
6. We are pretty good at aerial duels.
7. We are pretty good dribblers.
8. Celina is an excellent football player.
CroJack
Key Player
Agree, he was very good today.
I didn’t get to go today but listened in on the radio - worst performance of the day has to be the Ref by the sounds of it - best performance of the day goes to Billy Reid for consistency in terrorising the 4th official - he showed the most attack on the pitch
for consistency in terrorising the 4th official - he showed the most attack on the pitch 
MIjacks
First Teamer
I don't get why everyone is so upset. Was it a good performance no. But team isn't the same without celina or montero. They are our playmakers. We ground out a point in which the ref let them rough us up. Which unfortunately with the youth of our side, if a ref allows it, we will struggle. Let's focus on the hustle and heart of most of our players, especially oli, the kid never stops. We aren't in the same class as Leeds or the top end teams but have a lot of kids who will get better. So can we stop being so negative and try to enjoy what has overall been a positive start to the season.
I too think Mat Grimes had an excellent game.Cant really see any future in Declan John. Honestly thought he would have been subbed at Half Time.
Agree that he wasn't good but perhaps, with more games, he'll find his confidence and show that he's better than we've seen.
Mithrandir
Key Player
Same deal as it has been for me recently. Happy with the results Potter has been able to pull off, but super disappointed with the negative stylistic mentality he has taken with the squad. I'm not a fan of predominately playing in our own half, and that certainly hasn't been a feature exclusive to today's performance.
CroJack
Key Player
Oh, now I understand. I think those opinions were just a Post traumatic match syndrom
.
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
When you ave a no show like McKay on the field it create and imbalance and makes being aggressive going forward they much more difficult.
I can’t imagine why that is tolerated by the other players
I can’t imagine why that is tolerated by the other players
Behindthegoal
Key Player
Can anyone tell me what particular event changed McKay. For one instant in the first half he collected the ball in our half eluded two nasty challenges and took the ball 50plus yards. No end product, though. I never saw him again!
Have read numerous articles this morning and literally hundreds of readers comments from those at the game. The overwhelming tone of all this is that we have to toughen up as a team or die. The trouble is that you can't install guts in a player if he doesn't have any to start with. It has to be there..... from the womb. It's either in you or it isn't and too many of our players lack that abrasive edge that's needed at this level - something I warned about before a ball was kicked in anger this season.
Other teams now know this and the working over we got from Forest is going to be repeated again and again in future games. It's true that ideally we should football our way past the cloggers and do our own thing BUT our players aren't that good yet. They are youngsters finding their way, developing their games and getting their aspirations booted out of them. As Chris Kamara once said, "I know all about talent. I made a career out of kicking it". That's the Championship.
It's essential that Wilf Bony is NOT sold when he's fit. We need him up front to add aggression and strength but Potter by now has hopefully realised that he must also sign a couple of seasoned, hardened pros in the next window - some minders if you like to protect the skilful youngsters and allow them to do what they can do. He must also start giving games to some of the older hands like Dyer, Routledge and Narsingh, who although not hard men in the accepted sense, at least have years of experience in handling those who dish it out. I'm not looking forward to the next two games!!
Interesting to note that in the following stats, Forest committed THREE TIMES as many fouls as we did and, the atrocious standard of refereeing at this level, allows such teams to get away with it, so we can expect a lot more in games to come. The likes of Dhanda, Mckay and Celina must be wincing already. I know that Celina, for instance, has experience in the Championship but he had players around him who offered him a degree of protection. Unless Fer is playing, he has no such luxury with us. Our stats first:
Possession: 41/59 Shots: 5/16 OT: 2/4 Corners: 3/10 FOULS: 4/13
Not pretty reading when you consider that we were the home team playing opponents well below us in the table.
Other teams now know this and the working over we got from Forest is going to be repeated again and again in future games. It's true that ideally we should football our way past the cloggers and do our own thing BUT our players aren't that good yet. They are youngsters finding their way, developing their games and getting their aspirations booted out of them. As Chris Kamara once said, "I know all about talent. I made a career out of kicking it". That's the Championship.
It's essential that Wilf Bony is NOT sold when he's fit. We need him up front to add aggression and strength but Potter by now has hopefully realised that he must also sign a couple of seasoned, hardened pros in the next window - some minders if you like to protect the skilful youngsters and allow them to do what they can do. He must also start giving games to some of the older hands like Dyer, Routledge and Narsingh, who although not hard men in the accepted sense, at least have years of experience in handling those who dish it out. I'm not looking forward to the next two games!!
Interesting to note that in the following stats, Forest committed THREE TIMES as many fouls as we did and, the atrocious standard of refereeing at this level, allows such teams to get away with it, so we can expect a lot more in games to come. The likes of Dhanda, Mckay and Celina must be wincing already. I know that Celina, for instance, has experience in the Championship but he had players around him who offered him a degree of protection. Unless Fer is playing, he has no such luxury with us. Our stats first:
Possession: 41/59 Shots: 5/16 OT: 2/4 Corners: 3/10 FOULS: 4/13
Not pretty reading when you consider that we were the home team playing opponents well below us in the table.
CroJack
Key Player
Those who read my thread The Reds knew what to expect.
"Conclusion:
The Reds are definitely the dirtiest team in the Championship, especially when they play away. They will foul and tackle us."
@Ladygargar wrote this:
"Their 21 yellows - slightly worrying - how many players will we have left come 5pm tonight?"
So my question is why on earth was our line-up lightweight and not heavyweight?
It's not that we don't have players who couldn't kick their arses.
1. Reid (you know how strong and big he is),
2. Cameron Carter-Vickers is a big lad,
3. Van der Hoorn is a big lad,
4. Rodon knows how to tackle,
5. Olsson is a nasty one and he should have played as left-back;
6. Naughton is one of our best tacklers,
7. Roberts is not lightweight either,
8. Dyer used to be one of our best tacklers,
9. Olie is one of the nastiest players in the Championship, he is in top for fouls committed per game,
10. Narsingh is physicaly strong
11. Fulton is one of our nastiest players
We have enough players who can protect Celina and Dhanda, but Potter chose a lightweight first XI.
Good points, CJ, and your prediction about Forest was spot on. But here's the thing: in your list there were players who were on the field for us for large chunks of the game namely: VdH, Rodon, Roberts, Fulton, Naughton, CC-V and Oli. That's SEVEN Swan's players who can tackle hard or put the boot in..... but they didn't, for whatever reason. I mean, the entire team committed only FOUR fouls between the whole frigging lot of them if the stats are right. In this league you have to fight fire with fire - we seemed to fight with damp ashes according to virtually every comment and report that I've read. Wish I could have seen the game to draw my own conclusions but the 'circumstantial' evidence seems overwhelming.
When we were in the PL and tamely submitting like a flock of meek lambs in some games, I clearly remember the scathing remarks made by the pundits about our lack of bottle - that we didn't even have enough fire in our bellies to draw a card for getting stuck in. In this game, Forest had three yellow cards (and were damned lucky not to see a red). WE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE ONE!! That tells me something. In fact, it tells me a lot. We submitted ourselves to be bullied and that cannot be allowed to go on.
Gary Rowett, and particularly Tony Pulis, are no fools and must be rubbing their hands together with glee at the prospect of facing us. They have the players to intimidate us and you can bet your arse what the team instructions will be. Potter will have to select horses for courses and put out a team that will physically compete in these games else we will be steam-rollered. Get parity in the muscle game then perhaps our footballers can do their stuff to earn us some points.
When we were in the PL and tamely submitting like a flock of meek lambs in some games, I clearly remember the scathing remarks made by the pundits about our lack of bottle - that we didn't even have enough fire in our bellies to draw a card for getting stuck in. In this game, Forest had three yellow cards (and were damned lucky not to see a red). WE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE ONE!! That tells me something. In fact, it tells me a lot. We submitted ourselves to be bullied and that cannot be allowed to go on.
Gary Rowett, and particularly Tony Pulis, are no fools and must be rubbing their hands together with glee at the prospect of facing us. They have the players to intimidate us and you can bet your arse what the team instructions will be. Potter will have to select horses for courses and put out a team that will physically compete in these games else we will be steam-rollered. Get parity in the muscle game then perhaps our footballers can do their stuff to earn us some points.