Victoria Swan
Key Player
Exactly what I said! It's not only Kimmi Raikkonnen who is "so over it"!
F1
- Thread starter Jackflash
- Start date
Mercedes have decided to let it rest, so that's me done with this Mickey Mouse so-called sport. Verstappen, as far as I'm concerned, is a plastic non-champion but I don't blame him for this farce. That lies with the FIA who, I understand from the column header "Net gain is F1 loss", shamelessly manipulated the result to promote interest in the Netflix show "Drive to Survive", which has pumped up the share price for F1's OWNER Liberty Media. Add this to the fact that the FIA was determined to end the Mercedes/Hamilton dominance and Lewis became the proverbial sitting duck as it has been described in so many articles.
To quote just one journo: "Nobody wants a major sporting event settled by rules-is rules jobsworths. But is it fair? A final lap between one on fresh tyres and another needing an urgent appointment with a KikFit fitter was hardly an even contest".
Yet despite all this, to my astonishment some have been saying that Verstappen deserved to win. Deserved??!! How in God's name did he deserve it? Lewis had been 32 points behind in the driver's race and reeled in Verstappen until they went level into that last battle where race director Michael Masi indisputably, unarguably, ripped up the rule book under pressure from Christian Horner. Deserved? Only a mentally challenged amoeba could claim it was 'deserved'. Let's face FACTS! Lewis whupped Verstappen's arse in this last 'proper' race. Starting behind Verstappen he passed him off the line then built up better than a 10 second gap over the Dutchman. Verstappen was whupped! He was beaten! There was NOTHING HE could do to get near Lewis. But guess what? The fix was in. Verstappen couldn't beat Lewis here but Red Bull's compliant mates in the FIA could. The rest is corrupt history. And let's get one thing straight here and now - had this been the other way round and Verstappen had lost to this blatant cheating, I'd have been equally incensed.
But here's the thing. I read that Verstappen is descended from a line of thugs. His father and grandfather were criminally convicted of cracking another man's skull in a GBH assault and father Jos was further charged with attempted murder. This was eventually dropped through 'lack of evidence'. I know what I think about that!
Verstappen claims to hero-worship said father despite all this. Might account for his demeanour on track. Dangerous bully!
To quote just one journo: "Nobody wants a major sporting event settled by rules-is rules jobsworths. But is it fair? A final lap between one on fresh tyres and another needing an urgent appointment with a KikFit fitter was hardly an even contest".
Yet despite all this, to my astonishment some have been saying that Verstappen deserved to win. Deserved??!! How in God's name did he deserve it? Lewis had been 32 points behind in the driver's race and reeled in Verstappen until they went level into that last battle where race director Michael Masi indisputably, unarguably, ripped up the rule book under pressure from Christian Horner. Deserved? Only a mentally challenged amoeba could claim it was 'deserved'. Let's face FACTS! Lewis whupped Verstappen's arse in this last 'proper' race. Starting behind Verstappen he passed him off the line then built up better than a 10 second gap over the Dutchman. Verstappen was whupped! He was beaten! There was NOTHING HE could do to get near Lewis. But guess what? The fix was in. Verstappen couldn't beat Lewis here but Red Bull's compliant mates in the FIA could. The rest is corrupt history. And let's get one thing straight here and now - had this been the other way round and Verstappen had lost to this blatant cheating, I'd have been equally incensed.
Kimmi is on record stating that he is convinced that Verstappen's style of driving will will cause a major accident one day. Raikkonnen is a vastly experienced driver, a former world champion, knows what he's talking about and has no dog in the race vis a vis the battle between Verstappen and Hamilton. Time to rein in bully boy, I think.
But here's the thing. I read that Verstappen is descended from a line of thugs. His father and grandfather were criminally convicted of cracking another man's skull in a GBH assault and father Jos was further charged with attempted murder. This was eventually dropped through 'lack of evidence'. I know what I think about that!
Verstappen claims to hero-worship said father despite all this. Might account for his demeanour on track. Dangerous bully!
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
The simple remedy to this is to go out next season and thrash RB and Max in both championships. I understand that next season, McLaren (now a works team through Mercedes) driving on top of Mercedes engines is also going to be a force to be reckoned with. Mercedes / McLaren #1/#2 in the construction and driver champs would do the trick,
This might well be the case but I won't be watching it. As I said, I'm finished with the whole cheating business, which has lost all credibility in my eyes. Christian Horner, Red Bull and the FIA can continue on their cheating way but I don't have to follow it.
Lewis Hamilton seriously considering retiring from the corruption of F1 according to reports. If he does I won't blame him. The whole bent business will be an even poorer place without the GOAT. This so-called sport doesn't deserve him.
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
This would be an interesting move, especially if he stays in motor sport but transfers his brand to a race structure in competition with F1.
For one thing, F1 racing is covered by ESPN in the USA, it is often broadcast live but on a secondary ESPN channel (e.g. ESPN2). I have noticed for a number of years now that not all commercial slots are sold during a race and therefore there is often dead air in these slots. Clearly somebody as advertising slots that are not generating revenue and therefore the rights holder is losing money or at the very least earning less than they could. It's not all golden on the media side of the sport and like football that represents a dominant chunk of revenue.
If LH walks to NASCAR (which his beneath him in my opinion), or to the other racing forms he could command big money from sponsors, media covering that form etc. ... and it would be a net subtraction from F1. It would also cheapen any further victories MV has since they are not gained against the GOAT who is still active.
Mercedes works team could easily develop another vehicle class and enter a different racing format with LH as the key attraction.
If there is one thing that LH has demonstrated time and again, is that he is in a different class to everybody else. And MV has only so far shown that over the course of a season he can win but only by flaunting the rules and having the rules bent in his favor ... a cheap victory and will forever in most peoples' minds be the championship with an asterisk against it.
In many ways like the Ruth home run record being beaten by hitters on steroids. Contrast to Ruth ... who hit is homerun records on performance impairing substances like booze and cigarettes.
For one thing, F1 racing is covered by ESPN in the USA, it is often broadcast live but on a secondary ESPN channel (e.g. ESPN2). I have noticed for a number of years now that not all commercial slots are sold during a race and therefore there is often dead air in these slots. Clearly somebody as advertising slots that are not generating revenue and therefore the rights holder is losing money or at the very least earning less than they could. It's not all golden on the media side of the sport and like football that represents a dominant chunk of revenue.
If LH walks to NASCAR (which his beneath him in my opinion), or to the other racing forms he could command big money from sponsors, media covering that form etc. ... and it would be a net subtraction from F1. It would also cheapen any further victories MV has since they are not gained against the GOAT who is still active.
Mercedes works team could easily develop another vehicle class and enter a different racing format with LH as the key attraction.
If there is one thing that LH has demonstrated time and again, is that he is in a different class to everybody else. And MV has only so far shown that over the course of a season he can win but only by flaunting the rules and having the rules bent in his favor ... a cheap victory and will forever in most peoples' minds be the championship with an asterisk against it.
In many ways like the Ruth home run record being beaten by hitters on steroids. Contrast to Ruth ... who hit is homerun records on performance impairing substances like booze and cigarettes.
Lewis Hamilton and Toto Wolff shunned the FIA prize ceremony in Paris last night after Mercedes withdrew their appeal against Sunday's result. Wolff said that, despite having a very strong legal case, they had no wish to win the title in a courtroom. And Wolff gave no assurances that Britain's seven times world champion will continue racing declaring:
"Lewis and I are disillusioned at the moment. If we break that fundamental principle of sporting fairness and authenticity then, suddenly, the stopwatch doesn't become relevant any more because we are exposed to random decision-making, it's clear you may fall out of love with the sport. (I have!!)
"You start to question if all the sweat, tears and blood can actually be demonstrated by performance on track, because it can be taken away randomly." Wolff added: "I DON'T THINK WE WILL EVER GET OVER WHAT HAPPENED ON SUNDAY. That's not possible. And certainly not as a driver! We will never overcome the pain and the distress that was caused.
"That still seems like a nightmare. The decisions taken in the LAST FOUR MINUTES of the race robbed Lewis of a deserved world championship."
Outgoing FIA president Jean Todt has launched a review of the events in Abu Dhabi after the organisation admitted F1's image HAS BEEN TARNISHED by the controversy. (a more than obvious admission that Lewis was cheated of the race and the title). Wolff demanded the FIA ensure such an incident will never happen again. He added:
"We will hold them accountable for their actions. We cannot continue in a sport where we are held to ransom by ad-hoc decisions. If it would have been judged in a court it is almost guaranteed that we would have won. But neither Lewis nor Mercedes want to win a championship in the courtroom. It wasn't just a case of a bad call, it was freestyle reading of the rules and it left Lewis a sitting duck!"
Wolff said he snubbed the awards attended by Red Bull chief Christian Horner (what an odious little man he now appears to me) and his wife "because of my loyalty to Lewis and because of my own personal integrity."
So there we have it. Personally I hope that Lewis will never grace F1 again with his talent. They don't deserve him. And, although it won't happen, I'd also love to see Mercedes drop out; which would make F1 even more of a Mickey Mouse affair than it has become. Make of it what you will. I've already done so. Btw, bracketed comments and upper case content are my own.
"Lewis and I are disillusioned at the moment. If we break that fundamental principle of sporting fairness and authenticity then, suddenly, the stopwatch doesn't become relevant any more because we are exposed to random decision-making, it's clear you may fall out of love with the sport. (I have!!)
"You start to question if all the sweat, tears and blood can actually be demonstrated by performance on track, because it can be taken away randomly." Wolff added: "I DON'T THINK WE WILL EVER GET OVER WHAT HAPPENED ON SUNDAY. That's not possible. And certainly not as a driver! We will never overcome the pain and the distress that was caused.
"That still seems like a nightmare. The decisions taken in the LAST FOUR MINUTES of the race robbed Lewis of a deserved world championship."
Outgoing FIA president Jean Todt has launched a review of the events in Abu Dhabi after the organisation admitted F1's image HAS BEEN TARNISHED by the controversy. (a more than obvious admission that Lewis was cheated of the race and the title). Wolff demanded the FIA ensure such an incident will never happen again. He added:
"We will hold them accountable for their actions. We cannot continue in a sport where we are held to ransom by ad-hoc decisions. If it would have been judged in a court it is almost guaranteed that we would have won. But neither Lewis nor Mercedes want to win a championship in the courtroom. It wasn't just a case of a bad call, it was freestyle reading of the rules and it left Lewis a sitting duck!"
Wolff said he snubbed the awards attended by Red Bull chief Christian Horner (what an odious little man he now appears to me) and his wife "because of my loyalty to Lewis and because of my own personal integrity."
So there we have it. Personally I hope that Lewis will never grace F1 again with his talent. They don't deserve him. And, although it won't happen, I'd also love to see Mercedes drop out; which would make F1 even more of a Mickey Mouse affair than it has become. Make of it what you will. I've already done so. Btw, bracketed comments and upper case content are my own.
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
Class on the Mercedes size. Hollow and meaningless victory on the Red Bull side. Time for people to stop drinking that junk in the can.
F1 has now become a symbol of derision, ridicule and unfairness. I read the following today about the English cricket team's dreadful performances in the Ashes series of Tests against Australia:
Time has surely come to fly our cricketers home from the Ashes for their own safety. No, it's not that they lost the first Test abjectly and are staring down the barrel in the second. Of course it isn't....... ..... if that isn't excuse enough to call it all off, what is?
Failing that, CAN WE NOT JUST SETTLE THE ASHES IMMEDIATELY, F1 STYLE? LEVEL THE SCORES AND HAVE A ONE-BALL DECIDER WHERE AUSTRALIA HAVE NO BATS!!
Says it all about F1 doesn't it?
Time has surely come to fly our cricketers home from the Ashes for their own safety. No, it's not that they lost the first Test abjectly and are staring down the barrel in the second. Of course it isn't....... ..... if that isn't excuse enough to call it all off, what is?
Failing that, CAN WE NOT JUST SETTLE THE ASHES IMMEDIATELY, F1 STYLE? LEVEL THE SCORES AND HAVE A ONE-BALL DECIDER WHERE AUSTRALIA HAVE NO BATS!!
Says it all about F1 doesn't it?
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
The governing body of motor sport should either asterisk this driver's championship or declare the driver's championship void for 2021.
Barring the act of god crash and the further corrupt act of "god" on the restart, LH won the race and the driver's championship. There was no other way MV was going to win that race and the title barring a retirement of car #44 before the end.
Barring the act of god crash and the further corrupt act of "god" on the restart, LH won the race and the driver's championship. There was no other way MV was going to win that race and the title barring a retirement of car #44 before the end.
I think it would be impossible to take the title off MV now; and, at the end of the day, he wasn't to blame for the unholy farce that unfolded. He drove his race and waited to see what would happen - and he did have an excellent season as well.
My solution would be to allow MV to keep the title but elevate Lewis to join him as joint world champion this year. It would allow Lewis to claim his 8th title without stripping Max of his first. Seems to me to be a sensible solution and the FIA should consider it as a means to salvage their own reputation and that of F1. Honour should then be satisfied all round and, in a way, it would reflect what had been a brilliant season with two superb drivers duking it out until the end with neither really deserving to lose out.
I guess it won't happen though. That sort of common sense is way beyond the comprehension of anyone in the FIA.
My solution would be to allow MV to keep the title but elevate Lewis to join him as joint world champion this year. It would allow Lewis to claim his 8th title without stripping Max of his first. Seems to me to be a sensible solution and the FIA should consider it as a means to salvage their own reputation and that of F1. Honour should then be satisfied all round and, in a way, it would reflect what had been a brilliant season with two superb drivers duking it out until the end with neither really deserving to lose out.
I guess it won't happen though. That sort of common sense is way beyond the comprehension of anyone in the FIA.
PS: I know the argument can be made that no rule exists to elevate Lewis to joint champion, that there is no precedent for it. Well, there was no precedent for re-writing the rules at the end of the last race. What's sauce for the goose....... and Max shouldn't complain because, after all, we all know who REALLY won that last race and the world title.
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
That's an excellent resolution
I've kept right out of this argument until the dust had settled, Of course it was a very unfair ending to the race, but the rule book states it's quite legal to allow back markers to un-lap themselves in the event of the safety car being on the circuit, this ruling was more in the possibility of it happening earlier in the race. In this instance the position of all cars on the circuit immediately behind the safety car made the situation virtually impossible for Hamilton and discretion should have been used. He also got away with not giving the place back due to his shortcut , which again would have made a different race of it.
But I don't agree with trying to make Mercedes and Hamilton holier than thou. How many times has Wolff used their second car Bottas as a tail gunner for Hamilton. When a car enters a race it enters with the objective of winning, not for the purpose of obstructing other racers on the circuit, a task bestowed on Bottas on quite a few occasions. The suggestion of Hamilton retiring due to this result may well be a double edge sword ,there's always the possibility of the new guy coming in may steal his thunder, he's already proven himself quicker than Hamilton in a Hamilton setup car.
But I don't agree with trying to make Mercedes and Hamilton holier than thou. How many times has Wolff used their second car Bottas as a tail gunner for Hamilton. When a car enters a race it enters with the objective of winning, not for the purpose of obstructing other racers on the circuit, a task bestowed on Bottas on quite a few occasions. The suggestion of Hamilton retiring due to this result may well be a double edge sword ,there's always the possibility of the new guy coming in may steal his thunder, he's already proven himself quicker than Hamilton in a Hamilton setup car.
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No more than RB used Perez to hold up Hamilton in this race JF, and nobody can claim that Bottas did a good job doing it as he almost waved Max through on a number of occasions during the season - or didn't particularly try too hard. Being sacked by Mercedes might have been a factor in this but everyone was too polite to say so. But that isn't the issue. Using a tail gunner is a legitimate tactic that has been used in F1 for a long time now: it's an accepted tactic by all teams. And Perez did a first class job.
The uproar is purely a reaction to the cheating of the rules by the FIA and Michael Masi in particular. He should have allowed ALL the unlapped cars to pass but, under pressure from Horner, elected to only allow five cars to do so thus placing a hugely advantaged Verstappen to be virtually on top of Hamilton where HE HAD NO RIGHT TO BE. He had been whipped in the actual race but it was then handed to him on a plate.
As for Russell, he might have been quicker on one day than Hamilton but that is no indication whatsoever of what their respective performances might be over an entire season. Russell is obviously quick otherwise Mercedes wouldn't be using him but Hamilton has vast experience, massive ability and Russell, although better than Bottas, won't match up for quite a while. I'd actually prefer to see Lando in the seat myself.
However, this whole business is not about the drivers, it is about the FIA. They have already admitted that their reputation has been tarnished, which in effect means an admission that they did wrong, otherwise how could they be tarnished? The entire world knows that this race was fixed by the FIA bending the rules in favour of Red Bull. It stinks and the result shouldn't stand.
In my opinion Hamilton is where he is due to Mercedes. Having the quickest car on the circuit goes a long way to becoming a world champion.
At the time Ferrari and Schumacher had the same dominance.
I did agree it was an unfair decision, and a two car shootout would have been far more entertaining..
At the time Ferrari and Schumacher had the same dominance.
I did agree it was an unfair decision, and a two car shootout would have been far more entertaining.
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I see Jean Todt has retired as president of the FIA due to the fact that his three, three year consecutive periods have expired.
The new elected president is Mohammed Ben Sulayem.
If you think the system was corrupt before, hold onto your hats.
I know this guy personally ,worked with him on and off for a few years in Dubai with Toyota some twenty years or more ago, he was the Middle East Rally Champion, But was renown for being the biggest cheat in Middle East Motorsport. Nothing and I mean nothing was beyond his capabilities to get a result.
The new elected president is Mohammed Ben Sulayem.
If you think the system was corrupt before, hold onto your hats.
I know this guy personally ,worked with him on and off for a few years in Dubai with Toyota some twenty years or more ago, he was the Middle East Rally Champion, But was renown for being the biggest cheat in Middle East Motorsport. Nothing and I mean nothing was beyond his capabilities to get a result.
The Blobster
Prediction Champ
Dick Dastardly got nothing compared to him then .
Perhaps Hamilton should dress like a pigeon then if he's back next season. Personally, I'd sooner he step aside and let the cheats get on with it.
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
Hamilton has two options. Walk away, or, come back (at least for next season) and kick the shit out of them - prove it was a "fluke" and "fix" by winning 2022 going away (much like he was doing in the last race until the fix was in).