Proud Swans Or Plucked Chickens At The Foxes Den?

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
I'd settle for this scoreline now before this bunch of clowns give them any more presents. They're doing their best to aren't they? I've seen many better defences and defenders in the LOW and that's a fact!! I've seen better managers as well. Cameron must be laughing his bollocks off watching this. At least he will be when he's done crying!
 

The Blobster

Prediction Champ
13 goals conceded in 4 games , tells us all we need to know about Williams.
It might be early to judge him but he gets a huge thumbs down from me .
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
Agree that Rushworth has played well for us in general but let's not draw a veil over the absolute howlers he's been responsible for a few times this season. Tonight's howler was another example of his bad judgement when distributing the ball and it cost us a goal at a critical time. It sealed the game for the Foxes. I'm all in favour of praising good play but let's not gloss over mistakes that shouldn't happen.

Ronald? Didn't see enough of him as he was starved of the ball and Williams should be having VERY strong words with the rest of the team as to why this was. And, yes, professional jealousy does exist big time in football, which might be a factor. As to Ronald's pace, I'm not convinced. He had a couple of foot races but failed to get clear. He might have been quick at the level he played at but British football is a totally different animal.
 

jackodiamonds

Set-Piece Specialist
Staff member
This wasn't all on Williams. He is being hurt by his players not executing properly.

The high-line at the start was a bad idea (Williams' fault), but it was the rubbish offside trap execution which led to the goal (players' fault).

The penalty was Humphries fault for fanning at a bouncing ball instead of putting his body behind it and making it safe. That's not Williams's fault, but starting Humphries was. Also, if Woods' challenge happens outside the box, I think 50% of the time it's not even a foul. Credit to Woods for making that attempt. Nobody was making that kind of effort in the last two games.

The third goal was ridiculous. Swansea lost their cool after the penalty, got ragged, and started throwing possession away. Playing timid short passes in front of your own penalty area when the opposition can taste blood is obviously asking for trouble. Rushworth forced a pass into a marked man instead of just putting his boot through it and giving the forwards a chance to fight for it at the safe end of the pitch.

All of those goals came from player errors. They were not the result of Leicester out-manoeuvring Swansea tactically the way Saints did. Williams' system perhaps demands too much from these players, but he will tweak it. He has obviously worked on it since the last game. This was a much better performance overall. Before the penalty, Swansea were shading the second half with the scoreline just 1-0. There was hope.

The individual errors are the biggest problem. It's probably too late in this January window to rectify it, but the team needs some tough leaders in the squad to keep everyone else accountable. Without those individual errors, or against a team less able to exploit them, Swansea's second half performance would have beaten half the teams in this league.

Remember, Williams inherited a squad with significant identity issues and zero confidence, on a losing streak, in English football's most competitive division, mid-season. Not only did he have no pre-season to drill the squad in his system, he also had a brutal schedule of games which he is still working through. This is an extremely tough starting position, and I think it's premature to say the least to give up on this guy already.

Some observations:

Humphries needs time out of the starting 11 (maybe the rest of the season). Every good moment is outweighed by three bad ones, and Swansea can't buy a striker good enough to compensate the goals his errors cost this club.

Allen or Cooper need to replace Fulton in the starting 11. They have significantly greater presence and are both better and more aggressive tacklers.

Yates had four shots tonight, put himself about, and even got involved in the defensive side. It was good to see. I'd still start Cullen at 9. A reinvigorated Yates will motivate Cullen to keep his place.

Ronald has a decent cross, a good turn of pace, and is a willing runner. He will be good for this club, but only if he learns to handle the physical side of the game. He should have already learned that English refs will not give 80% of the lightweight crap Portuguese refs will whistle for.

Swansea look at conceding goals the way I look at my morning coffee - we both need at least one to wake up - and although staking the other team to a goal or two is a huge flex, it's not really helping the cause and I'm sure we'll all be happier if they can learn to cut that out.

Oh, and Cabango heads a football like a little girl rolling a bowling ball down the alley with both hands. His header led to Allen's goal, so I'm not complaining.
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
Grimes was also awful tonight. We should get rid of him and sign a physically strong defensive midfielder.
Totally agree. He's a safety first player who continually halts and disrupts momentum when he's on the ball - imo the most over-hyped player in the team. And neither is he captaincy material. He's a soft option and, from what I've observed, doesn't inspire the team one jot. None of them are concerned about upsetting him. Now, if his name was Roy Keane.......
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
….
Remember, Williams inherited a squad with significant identity issues and zero confidence, on a losing streak, in English football's most competitive division, mid-season. Not only did he have no pre-season to drill the squad in his system, he also had a brutal schedule of games which he is still working through. This is an extremely tough starting position, and I think it's premature to say the least to give up on this guy already….
I think you got the name wrong, It was Sheehan that inherited a shit situation and produced one of the best performances for his tenure in the Club’s history, second only to Martínez. Williams inherited a squad that had harvested 50% of points out of 7 matches, 4 away.

Williams doesn’t have an excuse. Williams inherited a squad in much better condition than did Sheehan. A smart new manager would have taken Sheehan to one side and conducted a complete debrief: what do you know that I need to know; what do you understand that I need to understand; who will sweat blood; who’s a lazy shit house; and most importantly how did you just do what you did and why …. And then replicate that in game 1, look, watch, learn. Game 2 replicate again with perhaps a little tweak here and a shim there. Game 3 replicate game 2 with additional shims. In other words build off an established successful base and micro adjust going forward until you really have the squad figured out and you know how each player ticks and who can be trusted.

instead we have witnessed 3 matches, each reverting from a back 4 that Sheehan had been using to a 3+2 (which we all know doesn’t work with this squad) and other adjustments not shims and lo’ and behold, we had our proverbial shit handed to us. Not the approach of the wise and wiley.

I quipped somewhat tongue in cheek on a much earlier post that our better second halves in previous matches were in part due to the opposition throttling back and the players sorting it out themselves at half time. Sooo curiously, what did we see …. but in the first half today there was a prolonged stoppage and what the stream showed were the players gathered at the touchline and vigorously talking between themselves. There was little to no listening to Williams from what I saw. Few if any players were gathered around him or any other coach. And, surprise, surprise, we then started to get a grip on the game,

Can Williams succeed despite himself? If the players are that proud and professional, maybe that’s how it might turn out. Do we care … in the short term no. But, Williams needs to get his own shit together and soon or next season is going to be a repeat of this one.

The only positive thing to come out of today was the half time introduction of Ronald and the switch to a back 4 required for that change to be made. Frankly, Williams didn’t have much choice, Was This a learning moment?
 
Last edited:

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
While the Williams saga unfolds ... we (the Club) need to be mindful that Cullen is out of contract in June. So are: Wood, Naughton, Allen, Walsh, Pato

Interestingly, loanees out of contract end of season are ... Rushworth, Humphreys, Ashby, Lowe.

After this season ... if I was Cullen, I might try to see what's floating around.
 

jackodiamonds

Set-Piece Specialist
Staff member
I think the club has an option on a year long extension for Cullen, but I don't trust them to take it.
 

jackodiamonds

Set-Piece Specialist
Staff member
It was Sheehan that inherited a shit situation and produced one of the best performances for his tenure in the Club’s history, second only to Martínez.
The comparison is not credible when Martinez was manager for 126 games and Sheehan for only 7. If tiny data samples are grounds for such statements, I could just as easily claim that Joe Allen is a better goalscorer than Liam Cullen, because on paper he scores one goal every 166 mins compared with Cullen's 1 in 342, but if I bought him to play #9 I'd probably be disappointed.

Sheehan is not a miracle worker. Truth is he got lucky. Coventry, Stoke and West Brom all should have won (dominating xG, shots and shots on target), but Sheehan's Swans defied the numbers and got 2 draws and a win instead. Sheehan lost 5-0 to Saints, worse than Williams' fared.

The only other teams he beat were last-place Rotherham, who had 10 men for most of the game and even then Swansea made heavy weather of getting the result, and mid-table Preston. Williams has faced significantly tougher opposition - Saints (who he got a "better" result from), Premier League outfit Bournemouth and runaway league-leaders Leicester.

There was no tactical transformation or sudden emergence of a congruent, established style under Sheehan. It was basically 80% Duff ball and 20% happier players now they were rid of Duff. That "new manager bounce" is never really a "new manager" bounce, it is a "glad the old manager's gone" bounce, and Sheehan benefitted from it.

I appreciate you really like Sheehan and equally dislike Williams, but the numbers say Sheehan's fortune would have run out, probably sooner than later. You're free to dismiss the numbers if you like, but I don't think Sheehan had a long enough run to really show what he's capable of as a manager, and Williams definitely hasn't had a long enough run either.

Regardless, since neither of us is in charge of hiring and firing the Swans manager, Williams is who we've got for the time being. I'd have preferred Thelin, but I believe Williams will get a tune out of this lot, provided their morale isn't completely shattered by the time the schedule softens up.
 

CroJack

Key Player
I don't understand why Williams doesn't play Pedersen as a centre-back instead of Humphreys. Pedersen is our player, he has plenty of Championship experience and is a no-nonsense player.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
@jackodiamonds ... there are several managers in our history that have managed a few games (<=4) and on multiple occasions (Curt). I have excluded these from the comparison list. Sheehan managed 7 league plus 1 cup match. More than a handful. He could have lost all 8, in which case we could consider him worthless. But he didn't. In a time of stress, he stepped in, got things organized and performed (himself) and the squad at a significantly higher level than his predecessor and other notable managers, all with an unfavorable fixture list.

I am not dismissing numbers, I am basing my position on them. xGs are nothing but fancy mathematical guesses. Results and scores after 90+ are the numbers that are factual. Sheehan has those numbers on his side.

It's a small sample, but with a significant outcome. Williams didn't arrive into bedlam, nor a string of poor form (as did Sheehan). He arrived into a reasonably well organized stable setup earning points. Players and commentators have, with limited prompting, spoken effusively about the job Sheehan did.

I don't like Sheehan per se, I don't know him. I respect him and for what he achieved and how he went about his job. I like people that GSD (get shit done), I dislike people that don't. Sheehan got a better tune out of the same squad of players that Duffer mis-handled.

Similarly, I don't dis-like Williams. I speak objectively based on his prior experience, his hefty compensation package (3.5 year contract) and his current return on the trust placed in him by execs. He is expected to GSD. To date, he's been far less than expected. He hasn't done his homework like he should have. He's been far closer to doing a Rooney than doing a Laudrup, or a Rogers, or a Sousa. Each of these other three managers took over from the previous manager (Sousa walked into a compromised situation - the loss of Scotland, Gomez, etc) and took what they inherited and prudently enhanced and dealt with any issues smoothly and efficiently ... for the most part.

What I dis-like is the Club's persistence in hiring people deemed by the broader industry to only be good enough to coach D league clubs when we're aspiring to play in the A league. We've now done it three times in succession. And the results have been mixed to poor. Cooper was the exception. I haven't placed Potter into this analysis because I don't know how to compare where he was with where we are. And I immensely dis-like the 3.5 year contract we've encumbered ourselves with on nothing more than hope as been-there-done-that is not a part of the equation. It's really fucking annoying and financially reckless. Based on probability, 4 managers in the Championship (Potter to Duff), we have a 25% of finding a winner, 25% of finding a loser and 50% of being stuck in the middle. Based on results and performances to date, approach, and drawing similarities to previous managers, Williams is a lot closer to Duff than Cooper. This could all change around, but any time now would be good.

This season, apart from escaping relegation, is yet another ho-hum nothing and it's over. I just don't see glimmers of betterment in our future. I could be wrong, but, I'm seeing more ghosts of our past.

On the spectrum ... Williams appears to be of the Martin mold ... the universe orbits him ... the players are there to service him, not he's there to service the players and the club. I consider Mowbray, for example, based on his pre-match comments against us, to be at the opposite end of that spectrum. Not that I'm advocating Mowbray be our coach, but his approach on entrance is pragmatic and prudent, knowing he has been assigned an end goal, but the journey starts with step #1. And he stepped into a situation in free-fall following Rooney.
 
Top Bottom