Proud Swans Or Plucked Chickens At The Foxes Den?
- Thread starter CroJack
- Start date
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
Williams' record so far: P3, W 0, D 1, L2, GF 3, GA 10. Performances dire. Character minimal. Effort - what effort. Quality poor. Pre-match analysis and planning totally useless. I expected much better execution against Soton and 'Mouth; we were embarrassed.
From Duffer, to Sheehan, to Williams. Night into Day into Night. Same squad. If Sheehan had performed @ 40% instead of the 50% he achieved in terms of points harvested ... I would entertain an argument that it's the players. But it's just not the players ... or if it really is the players then Sheehan walks on water and WTF are with doing with Williams.
Williams believes that his fantasy football is the way forward. He's that arrogant. Just because he's soft spoken doesn't mean he's not an arrogant stubborn SOB. I expect exactly the same tomorrow. An abysmal first half. Something gets said at half-time. Leicester throttle it back a tad in the second half and we sort of sort ourselves out. Here's the thing, the only way this makes any sense is that it's not Williams doing the talking at half time, it's the players, amongst themselves. 'Cause if Williams was so fucking clever at half time, he would be somewhat clever pre-match and the first half capitulations wouldn't happen; or he would make adjustments early in the first half when it was clear it was all going tits up ... after all that's what he's there to do.
From Duffer, to Sheehan, to Williams. Night into Day into Night. Same squad. If Sheehan had performed @ 40% instead of the 50% he achieved in terms of points harvested ... I would entertain an argument that it's the players. But it's just not the players ... or if it really is the players then Sheehan walks on water and WTF are with doing with Williams.
Williams believes that his fantasy football is the way forward. He's that arrogant. Just because he's soft spoken doesn't mean he's not an arrogant stubborn SOB. I expect exactly the same tomorrow. An abysmal first half. Something gets said at half-time. Leicester throttle it back a tad in the second half and we sort of sort ourselves out. Here's the thing, the only way this makes any sense is that it's not Williams doing the talking at half time, it's the players, amongst themselves. 'Cause if Williams was so fucking clever at half time, he would be somewhat clever pre-match and the first half capitulations wouldn't happen; or he would make adjustments early in the first half when it was clear it was all going tits up ... after all that's what he's there to do.
Last edited:
CroJack
Key Player
It's not all that black and white. Duff was not that bad and Sheehan was not that good. Do you really think Sheehan would not have lost to Southampton and Bournemouth?
Saints fans are saying that the football their team played in the first half against Swansea was the best Saints football in years. Much like our first half in that famous game against WBA under Laudrup. Don't forget that Saints have just gone on the longest unbeaten run in their history. And yet we completely outplayed them in the second half, creating more chances than they did in the first. But our players were wasteful and couldn't score.
As for the Bournemouth game, Williams admitted he had used the wrong tactics. But even if he hadn't, I'm pretty sure the result wouldn't have been very different. Besides, the quality gap between Bournemouth's squad and ours is huge.
Let's wait and see what happens in the next two three games.
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
I doubt that Sheehan would have lost to Soton and Bournemouth as miserably as we did. Based on the what he had achieved previously in terms of organization and execution, I would be optimistic for a draw or a tight defeat. I would have expected Sheehan to have performed a superior match analysis and preparation. And, given that, it could have swung our way.
Williams went into those games naively chasing his own fantasy. A pragmatic Williams would have developed on and evolved whatever Sheehan had achieved. The data and results are undeniable.
I don't expect any different. He sees the world as a nail and he's holding a hammer. He's going to keep banging away regardless of performance and results ... until somehow, someway it all comes together, or Coleman seeing it all going to shit puts Sheehan back in charge in a desperate attempt to avoid relegation.
There are plenty of examples all around us of well organized teams showing effort, and playing to the best of their ability that yield honorably to superior opposition. Newport v United is a classic example. Newport didn't capitulate. They were beat late on, but they didn't come remotely close to embarrassing themselves by looking liking the XI just showed up from the local pub. Neither Bournemouth nor Soton are anywhere near to as good as we made them both look.
For example, Williams chose to play 3+2, with a geriatric Naughton as CCB, against a CF like Solanke.
Who the fuck does that!?! A person goes through all of the effort to get a UEFA A license and that's what he comes up with.
Williams went into those games naively chasing his own fantasy. A pragmatic Williams would have developed on and evolved whatever Sheehan had achieved. The data and results are undeniable.
I don't expect any different. He sees the world as a nail and he's holding a hammer. He's going to keep banging away regardless of performance and results ... until somehow, someway it all comes together, or Coleman seeing it all going to shit puts Sheehan back in charge in a desperate attempt to avoid relegation.
There are plenty of examples all around us of well organized teams showing effort, and playing to the best of their ability that yield honorably to superior opposition. Newport v United is a classic example. Newport didn't capitulate. They were beat late on, but they didn't come remotely close to embarrassing themselves by looking liking the XI just showed up from the local pub. Neither Bournemouth nor Soton are anywhere near to as good as we made them both look.
For example, Williams chose to play 3+2, with a geriatric Naughton as CCB, against a CF like Solanke.
Who the fuck does that!?! A person goes through all of the effort to get a UEFA A license and that's what he comes up with.
Last edited:
I've also said that Williams should be given more time. However he needs to show, and very soon, that some of the harsh lessons he's been handed have been heeded and acted upon. He has to play a formation that suits his players and not one that suits him. And that begins with FOUR at the back.
If he's only able to coach one system, or if he's unable to adapt, then there's no place for him here. He has better players, overall, than he had at Notts County but then he's facing a far higher standard then he ever did in the lower reaches of the leagues. He has to deal with better teams, who have better players, better managers and better coaches.
He has to recognise the limitations of the squad at his disposal. We have decent full backs but pretty poor wing backs, for instance, so he has to select his team with that in mind. And he has to apply that thinking throughout the team. If I were in his place, I'd select my best players in their strongest positions then devise a formation that would best accommodate them. What he's doing is deciding HIS favoured playing formation then trying to shoe-horn players into fitting in to it. That's a recipe for disaster.
Our formation allowed them space to attack our flanks and they murdered us there. What concerns me is that this was very evident early on but Williams did nothing until half time. A savvy manager would have sussed out the problem a lot sooner than that and dealt with it immediately.
Maybe that's because they were ALLOWED to. To quote the infamous Ducks again, if a particular player/s was causing trouble, he would have demanded to know why that player wasn't limping about the field in pretty short order. Okay, it's using the dark arts but, let's face it, that's what happens when needs must in football. Hell, I've even played in games where the opposing coach was screaming such instructions from the touchline. If I could hear them, so could the officials but I never saw anyone cautioned for it. Ivor, being the player he was, often was the target and we, as a team, made damned sure that nothing bad ever happened to him. We were never the greatest team but there wasn't a wimp amongst us.
The scale of recent embarrassments has exacerbated Williams mistakes. Would Sheehan have beaten Saints or Muff? No. He would have played for a draw, taken a modest 3-1 defeat and spun a load of blarney in the post match presser full of "I can't fault the boys" and "we gave it our all for the fans" and made it sound like a victory.
Williams is both brave and stupid enough to be ultra aggressive with a new squad he hasn't learned yet against some significantly overpowered opposition. I like his bravery. I dislike his stupidity. I'm still giving him 12 games before I'm ready to say his appointment is a disaster. There's a decent chance he still comes good.
Williams is both brave and stupid enough to be ultra aggressive with a new squad he hasn't learned yet against some significantly overpowered opposition. I like his bravery. I dislike his stupidity. I'm still giving him 12 games before I'm ready to say his appointment is a disaster. There's a decent chance he still comes good.
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
12 games of 30% or less productivity in points and we'll be deeply in the shit. Stick a pin this. Tomorrow will add some flesh to an ugly bone, but I'm not optimistic for anything else as a result of what I've seen so far.
I wouldn't have bet against Sheehan in both of those matches. I wouldn't have bet much on him, but I would have liked the odds.
@ivoralljack ... to reinforce your point about the dark arts, I'm sure you know about Beynon's story vs Mullery ... and the directions JB received from Saunders when put on as a sub for Swans Combination against Spurs Combination at the Vetch in the early 70s. Mullery was the target. JB delivered. Mullery was kicked skywards in the center circle and all hell broke loose. 22 players crowded into the center circle taking swings at each other.
I wouldn't have bet against Sheehan in both of those matches. I wouldn't have bet much on him, but I would have liked the odds.
@ivoralljack ... to reinforce your point about the dark arts, I'm sure you know about Beynon's story vs Mullery ... and the directions JB received from Saunders when put on as a sub for Swans Combination against Spurs Combination at the Vetch in the early 70s. Mullery was the target. JB delivered. Mullery was kicked skywards in the center circle and all hell broke loose. 22 players crowded into the center circle taking swings at each other.
Yeah, I remember it well
as I got the story from Beynon and Roy Saunders (Dean's dad for those that don't know of him). Beynon (smashing guy) reckoned that he had a firm instruction from Benny (Roy's nickname) to 'sort out' Mullery, Spurs and England captain, who was making a first game comeback after a long injury by playing for Spurs' second team.Beynon ran on to the pitch, as a sub, straight over to Mullery and booted him up in the air. Beynon was booked and obviously he hadn't even touched the ball before sending Mullery into orbit.
That would have been a straight red today; anyway, Beynon got carded and Mullery went ape-shit about it as he feared another serious injury right after the one he'd just recovered from.But Benny insisted to me that all he asked Beynon to do when he sent him on was mark Mullery tightly, as he being a player of international class, was causing havoc for us - think we were losing 1-5 at the time. Beynon marked him right enough - for life if Mullery's reaction was anything to go by. But Beynon wasn't a nasty player; in fact he was a good mate and a really nice guy at heart. Had a great deal of time for him and I hope he's happy in his life.
PS: Got a couple of good stories about Beynon which I'll post here in the next few days.
The Blobster
Prediction Champ
I used to live by JB in Skewen, we were both members of Pontardawe golf club . I can confirm that he's a top class fella and he is keeping well and healthy .
KVetch
Key Player
We are getting battered tonight, Leicester only earning 1 point of 6 in their last 2 league matches. We haven't beaten them away since 1950. They have a good home record this season and don't concede much. I expect Williams to play a more defensive lineup or tactics wise. In spite of that it's going to be difficult to keep them off the score sheet and I think we get one whether it's the first or last goal. I see another 3-1 win for Leicester.
The bet I have is both teams to score and over 3.5 goals for 3-1 odds.
The bet I have is both teams to score and over 3.5 goals for 3-1 odds.
KVetch
Key Player
I am not ready to slate Williams yet, I think we're playing everyone at the top of the table over the next few weeks. He produced a record breaking season at Notts County. 25 match unbeaten run, 117 goals for them. They just happened against an historic Wrexham side at the end of the season. I'll give Williams a chance, I don't think it's good on the players to have 4 different managers during a season.
I actually introduced JB to golf along with DH, a close pal of JB, who ultimately became club captain. DH turned up for our first game as a threesome with a pink coloured bag and a 31/2 (three and a half wood) in its half set of clubs!! Never seen one before or since. Crap equipment but that didn't stop DH becoming a single handicap player in pretty quick time. He was a natural ball player - also had a century break at snooker, played RB for Ponty in the LOW, played good standard rugby for Vardre and was wicket-keeper and opening bat for a team in the South Wales and Monmouthshire league which, at the time, was high class and a recognised stepping stone to county cricket. He also played a mean game of bowls which, surprisingly, was a favourite game for the football team in summer.
I'm using initials to 'protect' the identity of certain individuals as I've not received permission to talk about them - politeness and all that. Of course some posters on here know exactly who I'm talking about anyway as they know the people themselves. More about JB follows.
Firstly, I'm delighted to hear from Blobs that JB is healthy and happy. His favoured song, that he sang with much gusto on the team bus, was "The Letter" a hit of the time by the Box Tops. He sounded quite good actually. In contrast, we had a pretty aggressive player, RN, whose bus song, in complete contrast to his style of play was, "How Much is that Doggie in the Window?" And he was serious about it too!!
Anyway, I lost touch with a lot of people/friends/ex team mates when I went to Spain to open a restaurant/bar. Been there quite a while and this particular day I was chatting to some customers on our pavement terrace when I saw someone out of the corner of my eye. A tall figure had walked past our tables on the pavement between our terrace and the restaurant. I thought, that guy reminds me of JB. I excused myself and quickly followed this guy who had stopped. Evidently he thought he'd recognised me as well. Of course, it was JB who was on holiday.
It was great to see him, really great. He came in each night with his partner for food and drink and we had a grand time chatting about the old days and past friends and team mates. Anyway, he missed one particular night but came in the next with his head heavily strapped. Seems that in another bar the previous evening, someone took against him and bashed his head with a bottle. JB had that kind of face, you know in complete contrast to his heart of gold.
But, typical of the man, when hearing that one of our waitresses, Diane, was leaving to back-pack on a trip around the world, he called her to one side and donated a tenner to her fund - a decent amount for the time and to a relative stranger! That's JB for you, a thoroughly nice guy....... despite what Mr Mullery would have you believe!
Anyway, I lost touch with a lot of people/friends/ex team mates when I went to Spain to open a restaurant/bar. Been there quite a while and this particular day I was chatting to some customers on our pavement terrace when I saw someone out of the corner of my eye. A tall figure had walked past our tables on the pavement between our terrace and the restaurant. I thought, that guy reminds me of JB. I excused myself and quickly followed this guy who had stopped. Evidently he thought he'd recognised me as well. Of course, it was JB who was on holiday.
It was great to see him, really great. He came in each night with his partner for food and drink and we had a grand time chatting about the old days and past friends and team mates. Anyway, he missed one particular night but came in the next with his head heavily strapped. Seems that in another bar the previous evening, someone took against him and bashed his head with a bottle. JB had that kind of face, you know
in complete contrast to his heart of gold.But, typical of the man, when hearing that one of our waitresses, Diane, was leaving to back-pack on a trip around the world, he called her to one side and donated a tenner to her fund - a decent amount for the time and to a relative stranger! That's JB for you, a thoroughly nice guy....... despite what Mr Mullery would have you believe!
Back to the game tonight, which is on Swan's TV. The way we're playing at the moment we're on a hiding to nothing and we'd do well to grab a draw. Unfortunately I don't think we are good enough to do even that. If we don't sort out some of our problems, and by 'we' I mean Luke Williams, we're in line for another hammering. If we lose 1-3 I'd actually settle for that but I fear it could be worse. However, if Williams has learned some lessons and the team applies them, we might do better than I think. Here's hoping! 
KVetch
Key Player
I was just listening to something of Alex Chilton's early career I think it was Ronnie and the Devilles. I can't remember though. My dad's band would cover the Letter, one of the best songs of all time.Firstly, I'm delighted to hear from Blobs that JB is healthy and happy. His favoured song, that he sang with much gusto on the team bus, was "The Letter" a hit of the time by the Box Tops. He sounded quite good actually. In contrast, we had a pretty aggressive player, RN, whose bus song, in complete contrast to his style of play was, "How Much is that Doggie in the Window?" And he was serious about it too!!
Anyway, I lost touch with a lot of people/friends/ex team mates when I went to Spain to open a restaurant/bar. Been there quite a while and this particular day I was chatting to some customers on our pavement terrace when I saw someone out of the corner of my eye. A tall figure had walked past our tables on the pavement between our terrace and the restaurant. I thought, that guy reminds me of JB. I excused myself and quickly followed this guy who had stopped. Evidently he thought he'd recognised me as well. Of course, it was JB who was on holiday.
It was great to see him, really great. He came in each night with his partner for food and drink and we had a grand time chatting about the old days and past friends and team mates. Anyway, he missed one particular night but came in the next with his head heavily strapped. Seems that in another bar the previous evening, someone took against him and bashed his head with a bottle. JB had that kind of face, you know
But, typical of the man, when hearing that one of our waitresses, Diane, was leaving to back-pack on a trip around the world, he called her to one side and donated a tenner to her fund - a decent amount for the time and to a relative stranger! That's JB for you, a thoroughly nice guy....... despite what Mr Mullery would have you believe!
KVetch
Key Player
I thought Leicester would have an older squad but they're right in the middle even with Vardy and all those older players. We're around 8th youngest currently. They must have a good mix of younger and older players. Must be nice for the young lads training and playing with guys like Ndidi, Vardy, Albrighton.
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
Swansea City: Carl Rushworth, Jay Fulton, Harry Darling, Matt Grimes (captain), Jerry Yates, Jamie Paterson, Josh Tymon, Liam Cullen, Nathan Wood, Harrison Ashby, Bashir Humphreys.
Substitutes: Andy Fisher, Kristian Pedersen, Ben Cabango, Joe Allen, Charlie Patino, Mykola Kuharevich, Kyle Naughton, Ollie Cooper, Ronald.
Leicester City: Mads Hermansen, Wout Faes, Callum Doyle, Harry Winks, Stephy Mavididi, Patson Daka, Ricardo Pereira (captain), Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall, Jannik Vestergaard, Dennis Praet, Kasey McAteer.
Substitutes: Jakub Stolarczyk, Conor Coady, Jamie Vardy, Hamza Choudhury, Tom Cannon, Yunus Akgun, Ben Nelson, Arvan Raikhy.
Substitutes: Andy Fisher, Kristian Pedersen, Ben Cabango, Joe Allen, Charlie Patino, Mykola Kuharevich, Kyle Naughton, Ollie Cooper, Ronald.
Leicester City: Mads Hermansen, Wout Faes, Callum Doyle, Harry Winks, Stephy Mavididi, Patson Daka, Ricardo Pereira (captain), Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall, Jannik Vestergaard, Dennis Praet, Kasey McAteer.
Substitutes: Jakub Stolarczyk, Conor Coady, Jamie Vardy, Hamza Choudhury, Tom Cannon, Yunus Akgun, Ben Nelson, Arvan Raikhy.
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
Williams is Martin Mark II. More Madness; little learned. 3+2. Yates starts again. Cullen with Pato at the top of midfield. Grimes and Fulton holding.
Wood, Darling, Humphreys as CBs. Tymon and Ashby are WBs.
Wood, Darling, Humphreys as CBs. Tymon and Ashby are WBs.