Corona virus

CroJack

Key Player
Guys, I'm posting these articles about Denmark to cheer you up. Lockdown works, and right now you are in the middle of the storm.

According to IHME you are already past the peak. In the middle of May you'll have a few new infections, and on June 1 no new infections.

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Stay safe (y).
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
I'm FURIOUS after reading this today:

Opportunistic Chinese firms hunting a bargain are set to buy British and European companies weakened by the pandemic, the EU says. (WHAT A FUCKING CHEEK!!!!!) The article goes on: Firms that have seen share prices fall since the outbreak are vulnerable to takeover....... European companies including British ones, have long been in the sights of Chinese rivals.

I'm gobsmacked! Far from climbing in and thieving economic and financial bargains from the disgusting pandemic that THEY started, the fucking Chinese government should be forced to pay huge reparations to the rest of the world - no matter how much the cost or how long it takes.

China was also responsible for the 2003 Sars epidemic but hushed up most of the truth about its origins and, with regard to Covid 19, the present silence has been described by an insider as the "costliest government cover-up of all time"! The Chinese government also arrested or silenced doctors who tried to speak out about the new disease. Doctors in Wuhan were afraid, which has been described as, "truly intimidation of an entire profession".

Like, POTUS Donald Trump or not, he is absolutely right in his distrust and condemnation of the World Health Organisation who seemingly have colluded with China in the suppressing of the truth about Covid. He wants an investigation into the WHO, as do I, and as should the rest of the free world. Lies have been told and the truth hidden about the Chinese origins of this virus and they need to be exposed along with the part played by people within the WHO, which has shown itself not fit for purpose.

If Trump proves his case then certain people/organisations/countries have been guilty of mass manslaughter, if not murder. Thousands have died: been made bankrupt: had their lives destroyed in one way or another and experts predict that it will take generations for us to recover. Yet I read that Chinese companies are queuing up to take financial advantage of the situation that THEY created. HOW FUCKING DARE THEY!!

I can do little about it personally but I know that I will not knowingly buy a single Chinese produced product for a long time to come. And I hope that there are millions like me in the rest of the world.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
As per usual Trump's "facts" about the WHO are his own delusions. The WHO followed protocols and instituted in situ operations per those protocols. They also developed tests, which Trump refused to take advantage of. Dumb and Dumber (Trump and Johnson) are the critical points of failure in USA and UK. Both saw what was happening in China - Trump in January boasted about how tight he was with Xi during trade related discussions and final agreements - and then in Italy. Trump has one of the most sophisticated intelligence operations in the world at his disposal ... but either can't read or can't be bothered with the daily proffer even when they've literally reduced it to pretty pictures for him. Trump has no excuse for not knowing what was happening on the ground nor what the risks were, nor what he should do about. Both declined in their own way to act diligently and promptly. Both have little clue as to what is really happening. Johnson was hoisted on his own petard and had to avail himself of the NHS ... wonder what happened to the private clinic he should be able to afford ... I guess he didn't bank on being one of the herd when he advocated the herd immunity approach. I am sympathetic towards his wife/partner and the unborn child.

Adding insult to injury, Trump now routinely boasts about how he is going to provide ventilators and tests to Russia, when domestic states are still struggling for equipment and tests, and the federal operation has interfered with the states' acquisition of critical supplies. If it wasn't for the competence of states' governors the USA would be a total shit show. One bright spot is the superlative performance of the US Army Corp of engineers in building out new hospital facilities in conference halls and other venues. However, when you think that the US tax payer funds the federal government with trillions of dollars a year; then not content with that largess the feds run up a trillion dollar deficit ... it's the least we can expect. Executive leadership is vacant, and literally ... even with a prayer breakfast .. couldn't organize a piss-up in a brewery.

The Irish republic is tracking death locations and responding rapidly to the >50% death of the toll originating nursing homes with resources to attack that problem. In the USA, the death toll in nursing homes is unknown and not tracked. It is slowly being uncovered only when internal morgues are overflowing and somebody on staff has reached out to authorities for help.

Three obstetrics' units in NYC, by testing patients admitted for delivery, has determined that over 15% tested positive, and 14% were asymptomatic. One would think that women in their third trimester would have limited exposure due to their general lower level of mobility and their natural desire to stay healthy to protect themselves and the fetus. So, project that 15% into the NYC general population of say 8.5 million and you get 1.28 million cases almost double the national case count. C19 is an iceberg. What we see is what we test, which is the bit floating above the water. What we don't see and count are those we don't test, and those who die outside of hospital intensive care.

In my state, Connecticut, our case and death curves are still rising on a mixture of quadratic and cubic trends. We have been operating on a stay home protocol for around a month. Days to double are slowly expanding, but we're not seeing a flattening of any description yet. We are not tracking nursing home problems. We are not testing enough. We are running blind. We have problems popping up in other areas as the State has stopped special needs operations and redirected funding ... care for troubled juveniles, people on the spectrum, other vulnerables. Households and family units at the base of the pyramid are heavily burdened.

Food security is going to be an issue. There is no coordination here for produce grown and ready for harvest in places like Florida, now going waste and ploughed over because traditional customers (e.g. cruise lines) have no demand, and triple demand at food pantries in other States. The virus is crippling one of the country's largest pork slaughtering and processing operations in South Dakota ... a more out of the way place you couldn't imagine. If farming and food production operations are compromised by the virus there are going to be serious consequences over here. We've locked out the Mexicans ... so I don't know who exactly is going to pick and pack anyway. Lots of talk from POTUS about "war", but if this was a real war we'd be fucked; no clue nor coordination.

On the bright side .... Romanians to the rescue .... lucky that UK farmers are still able to enjoy migrant labour from the EU.

Running a country looks easy when everything is normal and operating in steady state .... what could possibly be easier ... it basically runs itself ... just STFU and stay out of the way. That's when any old rich prick with nothing better than half a clue thinks they could do a better job ... trouble is when they get elected and a tire needs to be changed or worse still a little black ice sits on the road and the truck skids into a ditch or is driven into one because they can't read a map, steer the wheel and change gears all at the same time.

And we have Dumb and Dumber!

The Chinese economy is now stalled. They are at the top of almost all supply chains, especially B2C supply chains. With no C - all retail is currently shut down - there is no demand. No demand means that every point of value creation along the chain has nothing to do without making an investment to buy inputs, pay labor, and create an inventory. China can't put its labor back to work, put wages in their hands, and recycle those wages through their economy until the C side of the equation starts up, unless they make a massive internal investment, but this is going to be months yet, and it doesn't work for anything perishable. To compound the problem there are logistic challenges and time lags throughout the chain. Are containers in the right place, how long to reposition. It takes over 30 days for a container to go between China and the US West coast. across the Pacific. There's reposition lag and transportation lag. Then there are lags due to customs and Trump's stupid tariffs. Then there are domestic distribution time lags. Then there is the consumer lag due to soft demand because people have been living on meager income for months and their disposable income is no longer readily disposable, it's used to replenish savings not to purchase. Then there is the lag as cash flows back up the supply chain - one man's payable is another's receivable. And to prime the pump, China doesn't magic up raw materials, they have to be sourced before China can start producing - some domestic and some overseas.

Somebody is going to have to bight the bullet and start spending money, i.e. making investments in operating capital, for all this to start working again. Who is going to do that ... fat cat billionaires or governments? China is the pivot in all this. They have to make investments to buy raw materials. They operate at scale, so initially they will operate inefficiently with higher costs. How long will it take to ramp up to full scale? It's not a light switch. It's going to be an iterative process that will take much longer than expected.

Rationing continued after WW2 for a number of years. Conversion of the industrial base from war time to peace time production took a while and investment. Demand needed to pick up - dead people don't buy anything. It is the same now with poor people or people that have been reduced to live on meager means. Then industry was ill configured. Today industry has all but stopped. Different condition but it's going to take time to get the global and domestic machinery working again.
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
VERY interesting post @Yankee_Jack and I enjoyed reading it but the duplicity of China has to be investigated. They have a track record for how they're behaving and they are far from being my favourite nation right now. They have a lot to answer for but I doubt we'll ever get the truth from them.

PS: I mean the Chinese government of course, NOT the people.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
Duplicity ... it's what they do.

It's no secret that the Chinese State Enterprise operates holistically and has for decades been purloining intellectual property from each and every foreign company that salivated over and maneuvered to gain access to the largest single population of people in the world, in a tightly controlled environment, with over 100 metro centers of over a million people each, a rural to metro migration of over 6% per year and a GDP north of 6%.

These companies, Siemens is a classic example, wanted a piece of that pie and knowingly engaged in partnerships and joint ventures that placed their intellectual property at risk. Surprise, surprise, the rolling stock of the hyper fast trains of CNR and CSR (China operates two "competing" northern rail and southern rail / train companies) look spitting images of Siemens' trains and incorporate as a foundation the intellectual property Siemens donated to the cause.

National governments and their intelligence apparatus, WHO, WTO, IMF, World Bank, EU and global companies et al know to keep one hand on their crown jewels and how the game is played. Yet, they choose to play. None of these players operate deaf, dumb and blind (except Trump himself); each has an embassy and consulates with intelligence and trade operatives stationed therein that speak fluent Mandarin, Cantonese and whatever the local squawk is.

People like Trump froth at the mouth, bang on the table, whine about balance of payments (driven by US consumption not the Chinese government - what supplier would not sell to a consumer that keeps on consuming at an accelerating rate) impose sanctions, impose tariffs and all it does is piss China off and costs the Trumps of the World (or rather their countries) tons of money. Tariffs are paid by the importing party or not the exporting party ... and hence they are paid by the consumer not the producer. The Chinese were not annoyed at the "damage" it was doing to them, but at the stupidity of it ... and I can tell you, Mexico and Canada were equally ticked off by Trump nonsense. In the USA, the "retaliation" of the Chinese against producers of soy beans and other agricultural goods has cost the US government more money in reparations to farmers than they paid to bail out the automobile companies during the financial collapse in 2009 ... and in 2009 that drove many politicians apoplectic. Farmers don't want hand-outs, they want to farm, and they want to make a profit not plow their production back into the ground. And, even when Trump is long gone, the Chinese market will never be recovered for US agriculture ... the Chinese have found alternative sources for the commodities they need .... that's 1.3 billion mouths US agriculture will not be able to sell their surplus to. A multi-generational loss.

Question: why is it that China become the world's manufacturer of choice and not India. Both have large populations, solid systems of education,, more open land than you could ever need and multiple metro centers with a million people. India was a democracy. China not so much. India exports services. China exports goods. I've never heard a good explanation for that.
 
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Jackflash

Midfield General
Staff member
Turkey in absolute lockdown on weekends now, from midnight Friday until midnight Sunday no one allowed out of their homes.
 

Jackflash

Midfield General
Staff member
What’s the logic behind that approach
With the ammount of holiday resorts out here people from Istanbul & Ankara alone flock to the coastal resorts in their thousands, the majority of them having holiday homes, the weather is already in the high 20's/low 30's.which makes it very tempting.
This is going to apply until further notice. the only one allowed on the street is the baker.
 

Jackflash

Midfield General
Staff member
Could well be the right thing,as even if a vaccine becomes available (which atm isn't in the immediate foreseeable future} add to that testing time then distribution time, could easily take us past the end of the year. Obviously some restrictions will be lifted, but who can imagine a pub with everyone being 2 mtrs apart.and I feel the same question may be asked of football stadiums.
 

Jackflash

Midfield General
Staff member
Been watching Piers Morgan on GMB this last week or two,he's on at 6am but I get the advantage of a 2 hr time difference.
Although not his biggest fan, he doesn't pull any punches when stating facts.
This morning he commented on 99 yr old Captain Tom Moore, who as I speak has probably now raised £ 27 Million.for the NHS. and he was making a comparison to Victoria Beckham who has applied for the grant to pay her employees of her fashion business. A business that apparently has never made a profit since she opened it. it's apparently being propped up by her husband.
The Beckham's are worth no less than £ 340 Million. a days interest on that would probably more than cover the employees wages.
 

Borini

Key Player
Been watching Piers Morgan on GMB this last week or two,he's on at 6am but I get the advantage of a 2 hr time difference.
Although not his biggest fan, he doesn't pull any punches when stating facts.
This morning he commented on 99 yr old Captain Tom Moore, who as I speak has probably now raised £ 27 Million.for the NHS. and he was making a comparison to Victoria Beckham who has applied for the grant to pay her employees of her fashion business. A business that apparently has never made a profit since she opened it. it's apparently being propped up by her husband.
The Beckham's are worth no less than £ 340 Million. a days interest on that would probably more than cover the employees wages.
Her business lost 12 million last year.
If that was my wife's business I would have pulled the plug, it'sall vanity so she can say she is a fashion designer,
So far she has proved she is a rubbish singer
And a rubbish designer.
 

Jackflash

Midfield General
Staff member
Her business lost 12 million last year.
If that was my wife's business I would have pulled the plug, it'sall vanity so she can say she is a fashion designer,
So far she has proved she is a rubbish singer
And a rubbish designer.
And he wasn't the best of footballers either!.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
Her business lost 12 million last year.
If that was my wife's business I would have pulled the plug, it'sall vanity so she can say she is a fashion designer,
So far she has proved she is a rubbish singer
And a rubbish designer.
Sounds like she's running a football club ... that's what many wives of club ownership think. Check out Scunthorpe's story.
 

Jackflash

Midfield General
Staff member
Again from Piers Morgan, our uk airports are letting in flights containing up to 15000 people a day, that's 105,000 a week without a health check.
One flight was diverted to Germany, where on checking almost 40% of the passengers were infected.
 

JackBarSteward

Key Player
From a bloke in the pub*** - Heathrow airport hand sanitisers were hush hush replaced for arrivals because the f-ckwits in charge of the airport bought standard anti-bac, NOT the sort that would kill a virus or 70%+ alcohol content. NOT THE GOVERNMENT. Fuckwit cheapskates in charge of purchasing bought practical hand scent as opposed to something that would disinfect a fart. Then they replaced it hush hush. I found that out the same week I was in Bedfont Lakes a farts distance from Heathrow.

***Bloke in the pub is also known as the moaning bastard. But it's also solid scoff house gen!
 

CroJack

Key Player
Interesting stats on the European Mortality Monitoring site.

The countries who were quick to shut the borders and implement social distancing mesures have lower mortality in the first four months in 2020 than in the first four months in each of the past four years. In Croatia, for example, the health care system was overwhelmed in 2017. They didn't have enough intensive care units and respirators to threat all patients who had developed acute respiratory distress syndrom. Not now.

How come that these countries have lower mortality rate than in the past years? On one side, they all kept the number of coronavirus deaths low, and on the other, there aren't any deaths in traffic, there aren't any killings, old people don't break their hips, there aren't any fatal accidents at work...

For the countries like Italy, Spain, Belgium, Netherlands, France, UK and Sweden the overall mortality rate in the first four months has surpassed the mortality rate from 2017 influenza season by large numbers.
Still, lower mortality rates in same countries have nullified higher mortality rates in others, so the overall mortality rate for all ages is same as in 2016/17. For people over 65 the mortality rate is same as in 2017, but for people between 15 and 64 the mortality rate from this coronavirus is much higher than from common flu. For children this coronavirus is less dangerous than common flu. Interesting.

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CroJack

Key Player
Could well be the right thing,as even if a vaccine becomes available (which atm isn't in the immediate foreseeable future} add to that testing time then distribution time, could easily take us past the end of the year. Obviously some restrictions will be lifted, but who can imagine a pub with everyone being 2 mtrs apart.and I feel the same question may be asked of football stadiums.
I think this epidemic will be over in July in the UK. And if there aren't any infected why on earth would they keep the pubs closed? Same with football stadiums, cinemas, restaurants, concerts etc. It simply doesn't make sense to keep them closed for public. There is no danger of spreading the disease if there aren't any infected people.

According to IHME models, Britain will be free for this virus on June 17. Let's say they are wrong, and instead it's August 1, or even September 1. Not bad. This epidemic will be over.

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Jackflash

Midfield General
Staff member
I think this epidemic will be over in July in the UK. And if there aren't any infected why on earth would they keep the pubs closed? Same with football stadiums, cinemas, restaurants, concerts etc. It simply doesn't make sense to keep them closed for public. There is no danger of spreading the disease if there aren't any infected people.

According to IHME models, Britain will be free for this virus on June 17. Let's say they are wrong, and instead it's August 1, or even September 1. Not bad. This epidemic will be over.

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I think the problem is establishing there are still no infected, If as you say, you think it will be all over by July, why the great urgency to get a vaccine by the end of the year. Convincing people its safe to go into pubs,cafe's, restaurants, sporting functions from July is going to be a very big ask. To quite a lot this is a life or death situation and I think will be treated with very great caution until they've received that vaccine,I for one, will be one of them.
 
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