The American Elections.

[Jackflash]

Seems Trump is prepared to be re-elected by fair means or foul. He says he will go to the Supreme Court in an attempt to stop the counting before all the postal votes are counted, claiming they will be corrupt. Postal votes will only be counted if they contain a post mark not exceeding the 3rd Nov. Going to the courts in an attempt to stop counting is like asking the referee to blow the final whistle after scoring a winning goal. He has been preparing for this outcome for a few years by sacking and electing Supreme Court Judges favourable to himself over the years. The man is corrupt, and can and will do a lot of damage on this planet if re-elected .Bumbling Boris sees this man as a friend and is possibly prepared to go along with him on anything he does or says.

 

[CroJack]

Trump is a bully and he doesn't have a case.
Under federal law, states have until Dec. 8 to count ballots and settle disputes. Some states have earlier deadlines.
In 2000 we didn't know George W. Bush would be the President until December, after a Supreme Court showdown. There were demonstrations from both Bush and Gore supporters in front of the US Supreme Court in Washington, DC on Dec. 1, 2000 while the court was hearing arguments from lawyers for Bush and Gore in the dispute over Florida's presidential election ballots.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

US Supreme Court has limited jurisdiction over election matters which are governed by state law and state courts. Trump is barking up the wrong tree ... another piece of fake news. In Bush v Gore, US Supreme court denied a recount under equal protection clause, which is a different matter entirely than what Trump is attempting to do ... shutdown the counting of legally submitted votes.

The election is running closer than I expected. Biden still looks likely to prevail, but clearly there is a large body of the US population that either have no values, suspend those values when it comes to Trump, or who literally struggle to see the difference between shit and shinola. It's disheartening.

Trump is not a political argument but a values argument. Trump is not a political animal, cares nothing for politics, could not explain a political ideology if a gun was pointed at his head. He is a person with no meaningful value system. It's all about self and screw everybody but him ... even his wife(s) and kids. You either believe it is acceptable to lie every day, multiple times a day or you do not -- that is not a political issue, but a values issue. You either believe it is acceptable to deliver massive abuse and cruelty on children and families at border detention centers or you do not -- that is not a political issue, but a values issue. You either believe it is acceptable to ignore bounties placed on your military personnel by foreign powers or you do not -- that is not a political issue, but a values issue. You either believe it is acceptable for a leader in government to commit massive fraud or you do not -- that is not a political issue, but a values issue. And so on. The list is practically endless.

It is not possible to have a political debate or discussion with somebody when their value system is a void. You can't get past the humanity element of the situation. A person's political view points can wax and wane, but their values are at the core of who they are as a person. When you have no values, you cease to have humanity.

 

[Victoria Swan]

Well put @Yankee_Jack. My overwhelming concern about a victory for Trump (and for what he has gotten away with in the last four years) is that it provides encouragement for others with authoritarian aspirations. Witness Boris Johnson - could he have got away with what he has been doing in the 'pre-Trump' era?

 

[Yankee_Jack]

If Trump wins .... it's Armageddon. He will not recognize constraints to law and order and the constitution. He will not be held accountable unless the Senate flips to a Democratic majority.

 

[ivoralljack]

I don't know enough about this to join in the debate, so I'm just keeping a watching brief to educate myself via other peoples' opinions so to speak. Of course I'm aware of Trump's many appalling deficiencies but I suppose one good thing, selfishly speaking, is that he appears to be well disposed to the UK, which will help with any trade agreement we negotiate. And, given the calamitous effects of Covid as we embark on Brexit, we'll need as many profitable trade agreements as we can get to aid our recovery. Even then it will take maybe generations.

This is a far cry from Obama who had the insolence to involve himself in our Brexit debate, insisting that the UK would firmly be placed at the back of the queue when it came to negotiating trade agreements should we vote for Brexit. Well, we did but fortunately Obama no longer pulls any strings so, to use the vernacular, fuck him.

Now I'm not sure about Biden and his attitude to the UK. Certainly I've read that he's no particular friend of ours having backed Ireland against us in the past. Given the little I know about all this, in general I guess I regard Biden as the lesser of two evils but I wonder what impact his election will have on the relationship between our two countries. No doubt I'll learn more as events unfold. But it's all very interesting.

 

[CroJack]

@ivoralljack President of the US can do nothing without Congress when it comes to trade agreements. Congress can, but it doesn't need to, autorise the President to negotiate and enter into trade agreements. These agreements have to be approved by the Congress.

During the Brexit negotiations between the EU and the UK, while Trump was rambling about a trade agreement between the US and the UK, the US Congress said that the UK can forget any trade agreement if Brexit puts the Good Friday Agreement in jeopardy. That was the reason Boris Johnson has signed the Brexit withdrawal agreement with the EU, which practically put the trade border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.

With other words, no matter who wins, neither Trump nor Biden can negotiate a trade agreement with the UK without the US Congress approval, and in some cases without the US Senate approval. And the Irish lobby is strong among both Democrat and Republican congressmen.

 

[ivoralljack]

With other words, no matter who wins, neither Trump nor Biden can negotiate a trade agreement with the UK without the US Congress approval, and in some cases without the US Senate approval. And the Irish lobby is strong among both Democrat and Republican congressmen.

Thanks, CJ, which is much as I understand it. But POTUS will undoubtedly have some influence and input on what Congress ultimately decides, either overtly or behind the scenes, politics being what it is.

Unfortunately you're right about the strong Irish lobby that exists in US politics, something I deplored when the IRA were sourcing finance, weapons and explosives there to wreak havoc and death on innocent people in this country during the so-called 'struggles'.

But enough of that. I just hope that the better man wins the election, not necessarily the one who gets the most votes.

 

[Jackflash]

Trump claiming fraud in the states counting postal votes he's behind in. Strangely he doesn't make similar claims against states that have him in the lead. The man is just proving to the world what a idiot he is. these are moves one may expect from Russia where democracy doesn't really exist.

 

[CroJack]

Must watch, I promise it's not boring

 

[Yankee_Jack]

It’s all over bar the tantrums

 

[ivoralljack]

It’s all over bar the tantrums

I'm guessing there'll be quite a few of those. Mind you, if even one of Trump's allegations of foul play is proved, the shit really will hit the fan.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

The % of fraud in elections going back over decades of elections is a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction etc .... of 1 percent.

And the most recent incident of election fraud was perpetrated by a Republican (trump party) hack in the state of Georgia in 2018. In fact, including the Nixon burglary and obstruction of justice, they’ve all been Republican originating.

elections’ officials have had months to prepare, train and rehearse their operations. This is not the first rodeo for any state.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

As a matter of fact, per Constitution, a president’s term (and VP term) of office ends at midday on Jan 20 following a presidential election. No ifs ands or buts. It’s pack your bags and don’t let the door hit you on the arse on the way out. Authority is terminated. The duly elected president, or next in line of succession, is then sworn in and assumes authority. If an eviction is necessary it is carried out ... there will be no shortage of volunteers to assist.