Basement battle with Stoke

[The Blobster]

Stoke are fighting , a good 2-2 draw with the Baggies last time out shows they have more bottle and endeavour than our shambolic , plodding shysters .

Lose this and we are deep in the shit !!!!

 

[ivoralljack]

Lose this and we are deep in the shit !!!!

I think we are deep in the shit. Got absolutely no confidence in the ability or the character of this team. And I have absolutely no confidence in the ability of Luke Williams to do anything about it. Williams was Martin's #2 then became a successful lower league manager. Trouble is, he remains a lower league manager but we are playing in the second highest tier in the UK. Imo he's not good enough and our results/performances underline that.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

When I previously opined on the performance of Sheehan versus Duff and Williams, it was stated by some that there wasn't enough data on Sheehan. Well now we have even more data on Williams ... and it's not pretty.

After the last the match we are here, this is covering all matches and not just the previous 7 match side-by-side comparison:

• Duffer ... Games: 19, Points earned: 1.11 per game; % Points earned: 37% (better overall than his last 7 seven games in the previous comp)
• Sheehan ... Games: 7, Points earned: 1.57 per game; % Points earned: 52% (looks better the further we look back doesn't it)
• Williams ... Games: 15, Points earned: 1.00 per game; % Points earned: 33% ( WTF were we thinking and this is with the benefit of new toys)

IF our best buddy Sheehan had put in a shift the average of Duff and Williams, then instead of a mighty 11 points, he would have only earned us 1.05 points per game = 3.18 points; 7 points less than he did. We would now have 40 points and be 23rd in the table 3 points adrift of safety.

It's time to call for what it is and recognize reality. Whatever Sheehan did in those 7 games, neither Duffer nor Wanker have a clue how to reproduce and get a tune out of this squad. Williams has enjoyed the benefit of Ronald and PP and a resurgent Allen. And yet, he has performed the worst of the 3 by far. Worse than Duffer, and the Club thought he was crap enough to remove him before the mid-point of the season.

Seriously people, when @ivoralljack said "nothing" in another thread, he wasn't just referring to the squad, he was also including the head coach.

We are where we are and Wanker has added zero value. He has just managed to tread sufficient water to keep us mid-point in the table with a record inferior to Duffer.

Bottom line, we are underwhelming, under-performing, under-achieving, and getting exactly what we bought ...

If you don't want to attribute relative greatness to Sheehan, then at least acknowledge that he managed to get the squad to perform much closer to expectations.

Williams cannot be our coach for next season. He just hasn't demonstrated that he can do the job. We are repeating the same funeral dirge in every game ... own the ball, lose the game ... we'd be much better off hoofing it into the stands.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

Near the top of the thread for the previous match, @CroJack asked the question ...

Can you point out one player in our squad that you are particularly excited about?

He couldn't and neither could I.

This question cuts to the crux of the matter.

If a club aspires to get promoted, it must have a squad, the core of which, could function acceptably for a mid-table club in the next division up. Function acceptably meaning: applies all technical tools 100% every match, with a drive to win, and busts a gut in the process. This is a club that wins promotion, perhaps automatically, but definitely is odds-on through the play-offs. And, most importantly doesn't bomb straight back down.

If a club has a core squad that is barely adequate to perform mid-table in its current division, then promotion is never going to happen, and if this persists relegation is more likely than not.
The same can also be said for the coaching staff and every other back-room person.

We are not a promotion oriented club. Owners might like to think we are. But that's wishful thinking and not translating into any sort of strategic plan. When it comes to players we try to churn them, buying low and selling high. When it comes to players and coaches, we try to recruit from the lower levels and expect them to perform at our level in a way that is superlative and delivers promotion. It's nonsense. We are mixing geriatrics with youth and expecting a coherent high octane, high quality result. We also submit to being used by bigger clubs to nurture their prospects denying valuable playing time to our own talent, suffering their kids' inadequacies and mistakes along the way. All of the pain, none of the gain. Although it has to be said that without Rushworth it would have been a season of abject misery.

Next season is not going to be any different from this one. If Williams stays ... what's he going to be able to do that he hasn't demonstrated he can do with the current squad. Put their technical abilities to one side. He hasn't got them busting a gut. He hasn't got them being focused and coherent. He hasn't got them delivering quality when quality absolutely matters. He persists with players (e.g. Yates) that are not Championship level players. Simple question: Yates or Graham? Yates or Borini? Yates or Beattie? Yates or Pintado? Yates or Scotland? I don't think Yates even comes in 2nd in those comparisons, and I'm not asking the obvious of Yates or Cullen.

lt’s rinse and repeat for next season.

 

[CroJack]

Lose this and we are deep in the shit !!!!

I think we are deep in the shit.

I disagree. We are not (deep) in the shit (yet). Three points against Rotherham will be enough. I think we'll earn more.

Five points advantage is huge with five games left and so many teams below in a crap form. Rotherham are already relegated. Birmingham, Sheff. Wednesday, Millwall, Huddersfield and Plymouth are in a deep shit. Two of them are going down.

 

[ivoralljack]

Seriously people, when @ivoralljack said "nothing" in another thread, he wasn't just referring to the squad, he was also including the head coach.

I actually did say that we had a nothing manager because that's how his results are making me feel. I have never felt such a disconnect with the team and manager as I do now and @The Blobster said much the same to me at darts tonight. (I got an almighty whopping from him as usual but I really enjoyed nonetheless ). If Williams is making such diehard fans as we two feel like this then Williams and his team are doing an awful lot wrong. I think he said that our display against Boro was as though we were playing a charity match. How damning is that? And I bet our travelling supporters felt great (NOT!!!) after hearing that and reflecting on the time and expense they invested in supporting a bunch of gutless nobodies who couldn't even be bothered to pay them the respect of trying their best. Shameful! Williams says he expects 'blood and thunder' from our remaining games. Be interesting to see what happens.

 

[The Blobster]

Time for Williams to show if he has a ruthless side .
Wholesale changes should be made to show the ever present non performing tossers that they do not have a god given right to automatic selection .
A wake up call and harsh words are not sufficient, only actions will suffice !
Give some of the youngsters a chance and drop the deadwood .
No more idling on the halfway line with sideways and backwards passing .
Sod your stats , if there's no obvious forward pass on , just chip it over their backline and give your forwards a chance to chase the ball , it might be over simplistic but it would be a fat better watch than the dross we have watched over the past 3 seasons.
I'm so disillusioned with the current ingrates I'm not even enthusiastic when posting wooooohooooo's !

 

[Yankee_Jack]

In my previous post I didn't ask: Yates or McBurnie. McB is going to be back in the Championship next season. McB is out of contract in June. An opportunity to grab him back if he's not made welcome at Sheff Utd.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

Time for Williams to show if he has a ruthless side .
Wholesale changes should be made to show the ever present non performing tossers that they do not have a god given right to automatic selection .
A wake up call and harsh words are not sufficient, only actions will suffice !
Give some of the youngsters a chance and drop the deadwood .
No more idling on the halfway line with sideways and backwards passing .
Sod your stats , if there's no obvious forward pass on , just chip it over their backline and give your forwards a chance to chase the ball , it might be over simplistic but it would be a fat better watch than the dross we have watched over the past 3 seasons.
I'm so disillusioned with the current ingrates I'm not even enthusiastic when posting wooooohooooo's !

It's not simplistic at all, to the contrary it's a clever move. Any ball over the top of the back line automatically inflicts stress. It forces the defenders to turn, face their own goal, and play the ball going the wrong way. Before the keeper/pass-back rule went into effect, defenders could pass the ball to the keeper who would immediately pick it up ... easy play. Not so easy today. Done at the right angle across field with the right weight (ideally the ball drops dead with back spin) and the forward is either ahead of the defender or right up his rear end. It's a tiring move for defenders. Do it enough times, frequently enough, and you're going to knacker them out sooner or later.

 

[ivoralljack]

That was my game when I was at my best. I played off the last shoulder and a defender having to turn could rarely catch me because I was very quick. Trouble was that in my era a keeper could collect a back pass if a defender got a desperate foot to the ball. I'd love to have played with today's rules.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

@ivoralljack .... on the topic of very quick .... Ducks: "I've never seen anyone sprint with a limp"

 

[ivoralljack]

Yes, he often trotted that one out and in his time he must have caused literally thousands of limps including me as it happens and that was just in training games . I guess he has to be at least partly responsible for the horrendous state of my legs in later life! I know I've posted this before but my favourite story is about when Ducks came back from a tour with a badly bruised leg. The club tried its hardest but never could find out who it belonged to!! What a character he was and so laid back about it all - it was just matter-of-fact stuff to him, something that needed to be done.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

The beauty of it all is that you could trot out that quip to a group of players in a pub and immediately tell who were the forwards and who were the defenders. The forwards would have zero sense of humor. The defenders would all be grinning from ear to ear.

 

[ivoralljack]

That's a fact and, as you know, Dai H became a disciple of his. For other posters this was a FB about 5ft 7" tall weighing about 147 lbs wringing wet and, although he was a mate of mine at the time, he was one of the meanest, nastiest pieces of work you never wanted to play against. Players like the late Mal Crombie bless him, who was a tall well built CB, were open about their physicality - there was something akin to honesty about their aggression. But DH was more like a stealthy assassin who looked like butter wouldn't melt in his mouth but, my God, in almost every game he committed fouls that make me wince to this day at the thought of them. I actually pitied some of the players he fouled - think Tommy Smith on Ardiles, which was a run of the mill challenge for this character!

I've actually heard players left on the ground screaming with agony after some of the grief he'd inflicted on them. Many times!! To put this in perspective, when Ivor first joined the club, he was introduced to the squad in a room that DA had rented above a pub in Ponty. Ivor talked to the guys telling them what he expected of them, what sort of football he wanted them to play etc etc. He then touched on the subject of hard play saying he knew all about the reputation of the league and he didn't object to players looking after themselves. Very diplomatic .

JB, a 6ft 3" centre forward who was no shrinking violet himself and DH's big buddy, nearly choked on his drink spilling some of it on me!! He told Ivor straight out that DH was a 'dirty bastard' (EXACT words) who was bad enough anyway without being given a licence to be even worse. Like us all, I think JB was aware of Ivor's reputation of being a gentleman footballer and was stunned when Ivor appeared to condone a bit of GBH if it was necessary during a game. Obviously Ivor would have far preferred to stay clear of that sort of stuff but was realistic enough to know what a physically demanding league the LOW was in those days. With all the new rules that protect players these days, it's a far easier, far softer game but back then you had to be tough to survive some of the mayhem that was dished out.

I do remember that on one occasion before Ivor joined us, we were under a suspended sentence from the FAW of an extremely heavy fine for the next red card we incurred. We were only a semi-professional club and the threat of that fine put our very existence in doubt, so we had to rein it in for the rest of the season - much to the disgust of certain people! Hard times but some unforgettable memories of a great bunch of lads.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

Ivor wasn't exactly a saint. At the end of his last season with Ponty, I saw him pull a stunt against a kid Clint Davies (16 or so) playing for Carmarthen that had been told to man-mark him. Never understood why this annoyed Ivor but it did, since Ivor could have run the kid ragged all over the field for 15 to 20 minutes, totally knackered him out, and then gone about his game. Anyway, early in the first half, Ivor received the ball thigh high facing his own goal. Kid up his rear-end. Ivor controlled the ball with his right thigh off to his right side, pivoted and moved off with the ball. Pure poetry in motion. However, in the process of doing that ballet, he put his shoulder into the kid's chest, knocking him back and down, reached down with is right hand on to the back of the kid's head and pushed the kid's face deep into the mud. And ran off with the ball as if nothing had happened. The ref was standing not 20 feet away, saw the whole thing and granted Ivor a "professional courtesy". Kid got to his knees, faced caked in mud, just the whites of his eyes showing, wondering what the hell had just happened to him.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

Watching City at Madrid. Foden just scored a wonder goal to equalize.

 

[CroJack]

These are the yesterday's results.




Millwall are probably out of danger and will need three more points to be safe.

Plymouth didn't manage to beat QPR at home turf, which means they are now in a real danger to go down. When I look at their fixtures I'm pretty sure they will be one of the three relegated clubs.



Huddersfield were well beaten by Preston yesterday and they also have a difficult run of fixtures.



Wednesday drew with Norwich and will need 6 - 7 points to survive.



Blackburn have a terrible run of games and if they don't beat Sheff. Wednesday at home turf they could easily go down.

 

[Behindthegoal]

Oh dear. If you think we’re safe, CJ, our boys might relax and take their foot off the gas.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

We may be mid-table, but just 1 W + 1 D away from the relegation positions. We are most definitely in the shit. We have 3 home games and only 2 away. Our home form is dreadful: we are 22nd in the table of home results. Our away form is superior: we are 14th in the table of away results.

Championship Home & Away Tables (England) | FootyStats

Home & Away tables for England Championship 2023/24 season. Win %, Loss %, Goal scoring data and more for 24 teams.

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Our best hope to survive is to rearrange all of our remaining fixtures to be played away.

 

[CroJack]

Oh dear. If you think we’re safe, CJ, our boys might relax and take their foot off the gas.

Not yet. We'll need 3 or 4 points.