Swansea v Stoke

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
1 point from 9 is not good. Martin should now realise the extent of the job he faces. I applaud his principles and will continue to support him but it looks like a long hard haul to get the crap he has to work with getting to grips with his system. What Ayew was doing for us can now be appreciated and even those donkey owners of ours should realise that we'll get nowhere without some quality. I hope we don't get relegated before it dawns on them. I still have much faith in Russell Martin but have to say that I still think that Cameron Toshack was the man for us.
 

KVetch

Key Player
My stream was cut off at half time - perhaps just as well considering the crap I was watching. I have emailed the club to demand a refund for the gametime lost and I suggest you do the same as it will add weight to our complaint.
Same here ridiculous. Glad I didn't have to watch Clucas score. We've had a few tough fixtures to start the season. We can improve, can only go up from here. Martin has to figure the formation out.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
Laird is a good acquisition.

Manning is showing busy.
Wasn’t much impressed with Downes, he was dogging it too often getting back and not really looking for the ball and moving to get it.
 

CroJack

Key Player
I didn't watch the game but judging by the starting line-up the loss was inevitable. What was Martin thinking? Pirou showed against Reading that he is a good striker, and he should be playing every game. I can see on SofaScore that Stoke missed many big chances. What went wrong?
 
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Yankee_Jack

Key Player
In a nutshell … too big a gap between our lines. Stoke could pass and move without much opposition. Too often in the last 35 that I saw they over loaded on our far side on a number of occasions, switched effortlessly in the final third and broke into our box.

Not impressed with Downes, he was largely anonymous in the sense that there wasn’t much movement off the ball and when he received it, for the most part it went backwards. Also, painfully slow getting back … ball watching while up field happened multiple times when he should have putting in a sprint to get back. If I’d ever pulled a stunt like that the air would have been too blue to print.

Piroe has to start. His goal was a classic #9 heading home a far post cross. He goes looking for the ball from his team mates. He’s willing to receive turn and attack defenders. We need find his best partner up front.
 

CroJack

Key Player
I can see from the highlights that this game was identical to the Blackburn one. Sloppy passing to the players under pressure, no movement, slow passing, too few forward passes, and nothing up front. Looks like the players were scared. We were an easy prey.

In his post-match interview Martin said the difference was two set pieces goals. No bullshit, please. Stoke created 6 big chances and missed 4.

I understand a lot of work has to be done but we are talking here about the basic things.

1. If there aren't any passing options play long passes and try to bypass oposition lines. Not even Manchester City always play from the back.

2. We can't keep rotate so much just because we play every three days.

3. Passing football without high pressing sucks. Quick ball recovery in the opposition half is crucial. That's what Blacburn and Stoke did.

4. Piroe has to start. Laird as well.
 
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Jackflash

Midfield General
Staff member
I didn't watch the game but judging by the starting line-up the loss was inevitable. What was Martin thinking? Pirou showed against Reading that he is a good striker, and he should be playing every game. I can see on SofaScore that Stoke missed many big chances. What went wrong?
The amount of passes Stoke intercepted was unbelievable.
 

CroJack

Key Player
i must say I am hugely disappointed with Martin's post-match interview. A lot of unacceptable excuses.

It's true we haven't had a proper pre-season, it's true we have many new faces in the squad, it's true some of our players are inexperienced youngsters, it's probably true our players are not fit enough to apply high pressing...

...but sloppy and slow passing has nothing to do with the things I mentioned above and everything Martin said sounded like a lame excuse. Why?

The purpose of passing football is to tire opposition. We don't expect our players to master high pressing yet. But playing passing football doesn't mean you don't move at all. I simply can't believe our players are soooo tired and unfit that they can't pass the ball quicker and more accurate or track back when they lose possession. The new style of play is nothing without an effort on the pitch, and it's Martin's job to tell the players not to be cocky. You can have the best style of play in the world but if the opposition run more than you do you'll lose every game. Possession football is not and never will be a replacement for running, passion, bravery and movement on the pitch.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
Exactly @CroJack … it was conspicuously evident in many players. Downes, Lowe, Paterson. On the other hand Grimes ran his balls off. There were players out there that didn’t want the ball, made no effort to be available, and were sloppy with it when they had it … and failed to make any effort to win it back. None of which is acceptable. Watch the positions Manning was taking up, or having fo take up because midfield players were not where they should be.

Bennet has now been missing for two matches … is he injured?

Downes has had a two match introduction and I’ve seen more movement in Ivor’s statue. It’s time to give Williams a start alongside Grimes and I want to see Oli Cooper instead of Paterson. Time to let the home grown kids get a shot. They can’t possibly be any worse.

On Paterson and Downes …. There is always a reason that prior clubs let such “wonderful” players go. Age is one, which doesn’t apply. Ability and performance or lack thereof is another. So far I’m beginning to see their old club’s point of view.

finally, on the foul on Benda by Fletcher … WTF was the referee looking at not to at least give a yellow card for that. An inch or to either way and Benda would have taken studs to throat and been in serious trouble. The ball was nowhere near Fletcher’s feet.
 

Behindthegoal

Key Player
Last night was like our worst days in the Prem. The opposition was quite happy to let us play with the ball in our own half, just waiting for the misplaced pass, the, whoosh, they were on goal at the speed of light.
Their only other tactic was to harass Benda and Cooper. How on earth did they know that we always play out from the back?
Of course, I was sitting in the South Stand so I watched a completely different match from that from the manager’s dugout.
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
I missed much of the game because I lost the stream but I saw all the first half and caught up online with some of the second. Abysmal sums it up!! WOL gave pretty much ratings of 4 across the board with Piroe star man getting 6. Says it all does it not? Some thoughts:

1. I agree that we aren't fit enough. I've been complaining about this for the past two seasons and more. Martin has inherited a squad that is not fit enough to do the job he requires of them. He has to beast them in training to drastically up the levels. They don't like it? Then fuck off!!

2. Martin is beginning to find out the difference between the First Division and the Championship. What he and his players got away with there won't wash at the higher level. Championship players are better quality, have more technical ability, are more savvy and fitter.

3. The standard of manager is far higher in the Championship. Their appreciation of tactics, coaching ability, knowledge of opponents' strengths and weaknesses, quality of player available to them, far exceeds what is found at the lower levels.

4. Experiment by all means because the players and manger have to learn what makes each other tick. But quit this square peg and round hole approach. Pick your best players in each position and give them a chance to develop and learn to play the new system together. Don't chop and change too much. The average player isn't too bright and change confuses him.

5. Never forget the old saying that used to be said about squash but equally applies here. You don't play football to get fit; you have to get fit to play football. Patently our players aren't fit enough to execute Martin's game plan, which is pass and MOVE. As we've said here countless times, passing without movement doesn't work and movement has to be made by every player for the ENTIRE GAME! Guess what? You have to be fit to do that!

I applaud Martin's aspirations as I think we all do but he has little quality to work with. Consequently the work must be put in on the training ground and repeated incessantly until everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet. Oh, and it would help if these so-called professional footballers could manage to make a 15 yard pass on target or without it being intercepted.

Let's hope they start to get it right before we become involved in a relegation battle. And, yes, based on the utter garbage they've produced so far, even at this early stage, I can see it as a possibility.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
On Martin's post match interview ... I'm not sure what else he could have said. He didn't lie, but at the same time he's not going to come out and rollick players that ran like geriatrics, were sloppy when they were involved, and should have been made to buy a ticket to watch. He said it hurt and I think that's not so much a team hurt but a personal hurt meaning he was insulted by what some players put out.

Friday is coming far too quickly. It beggars belief that we're that far off match fitness ... WTF were Andy Pandy and then Tate doing before Martin arrived. I can easily see knowing non-player individuals at the Club telling Winter that shit wasn't right and it was time to intervene.

As for square peg / round hole, Martin may not have too many options and he's trying fill gaps by pressing what he sees as talent and adaptability. Sooner or later inexperience in the role is going to get found out and exposed.

Thinking about Downes, Paterson and some of the other acquisitions: the only quality we paid for is Piroe, everybody else arrived on a free having been let go.

Piroe has demonstrated that given the chance and the service he can get the job done - last night, 1 cross, 1 goal ... getting it done.

As for the others .... I can't help but consider it insanely arrogant, the strategy of acquiring as starting players those that were cast offs from clubs inferior to us last season. Who the fuck do we think we are that we know better than clubs that have seen these players close up for 2 seasons or more, know everything that needs to be known about them, and still let them walk away. What message does this send to existing players from last season ... "these rejects from elsewhere are considered better than you". Players, even the dumbest, have more than an once of yoghurt between their ears ... they understand football and can read between the lines and probably have some, though perhaps limited, first hand experience of who these players are by having played against them or from word of mouth.

Laird was a breath of fresh air when he came on. We need a team of Laird's.

Martin needs rope if not to hang himself then to hang the players that aren't getting it done. I expect to see something resembling the real deal when we get back from the first international break in September. That's the point in time when Andy Pandy choked in his first season, stripped off the Potter patina, and showed his true colors. I expect Martin to have kicked ass, taken names, and whipped some shape into the squad by then, and to start what he believes to be his best first XI. It may get really ugly through the rest of August.

Worst case scenario: Toshack offered commentary on last night's game. At least he is in contact with the Club and on good terms. If it does go unexpectedly but dramatically tits up for Martin then we do have a substitute handy.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
For better or worse ... Joel Piroe | I want to kick on and keep scoring goals | Swansea ... this is our Ayew replacement. There is no more room for experiment. Until he proves it a fluke or gets injured or suspended, Piroe is the #9 on every team sheet.

If I was Cullen, Lowe, Whittaker then I would be doing everything possible in training to show how I can partner with Piroe; because that's how I would also be starting.
 
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