Swansea City V Notts Forest.

[Jackflash]

It's about six months ago that I took another slagging for my views on the appointment of this manager.
At the time I complained about his track record, his only claim to fame was the amount of possession football his team MK Dons played, no mention of wins or goals scored. Just another mediocre club stuck in the middle of Div.1 neither going up nor down.
Today he's brought the same environment to our stadium. 75% possession and lost 1-4. Absolutely no end product.

 

[Victoria Swan]

Martin's post-match interview: "If we cut out the individual mistakes, then we’ll be fine.” Yep, and if we had some bacon we could have bacon and eggs, if we had some eggs.

 

[Behindthegoal]

I noticed:
The usual warmup routine finishes with Hamer cutting out crosses while Benda saves the front men’s attempts at scoring. Today BOTH Hamer and Benda finished off taking turns to save really hard shots straight at them by the coach.
Any thoughts?

 

[The Blobster]

Hamer was beaten 2 times today on his near post and presented them with a tap in for another. Our defence was crap but Hamers contribution was the worst I've ever seen from a Swans keeper .

 

[CroJack]

At the time I complained about his track record, his only claim to fame was the amount of possession football his team MK Dons played, no mention of wins or goals scored.

Well, I still think you were wrong. Because you couldn't know.

First of all, it's not true his only claim to fame was the amount of possession. He talked a lot about touches in the opposition third and ball recovery (pressing).

Second, it was difficult to judge him on his track record because he had been a manager for only 15 months when he signed for us.

Third, he took over at MK Dons on 5 November 2019 when they were in dire straits and then with the season finishing prematurely due to the Covid pandemic. So, his first season with MK Dons lasted just a couple of months.

Fourth, it's difficult to judge his work at MK Dons in 2020/21 season and not knowing the strength of their squad. This was MK Dons first real season in the League One, and I bet many thought they would be relegated. Also, that was another season without fans. I would say that for a team promoted from the League Two the 13th place is a success.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

So let’s judge him on his work with us. Credit for getting our passing game back on track. But, he persists on playing inferior players, square pegs in round holes, and over looking bona fide quality for his favorites who today went awol. Hamer / Benda. Manning / Bidwell, anybody / Fulton, Paterson / Cullen. The list goes on.

Martin’s statement about individual mistakes is laughable. Put quality into their accustomed roles and stop football fantasy …. And then it will all work out. Whitaker instead of Paterson for all the good that Paterson did today.

and put Cooper into the back line and move Naughton to a wider position. Use strength where it belongs. “Football is a simple game, it’s people that make it complicated”. Martin is tying himself up in knots .

 

[Yankee_Jack]

Hamer was beaten 2 times today on his near post and presented them with a tap in for another. Our defence was crap but Hamers contribution was the worst I've ever seen from a Swans keeper .

I’ve seen a lot of Swans keepers going back as far as Millington backed up by Lyn Davies. Hamer is an embarrassment as a pro keeper.
@ivoralljack … you will remember Lyn Davies at Ponty … Lyn was a Wales U23 keeper while at the Swans … unbelievable in his presence in the box, no fear whatsoever. There is no way he would have allowed any of those goals today.

 

[ivoralljack]

I’ve seen a lot of Swans keepers going back as far as Millington backed up by Lyn Davies. Hamer is an embarrassment as a pro keeper.
@ivoralljack … you will remember Lyn Davies at Ponty … Lyn was a Wales U21 keeper while at the Swans … unbelievable in his presence in the box, no fear whatsoever. There is no way he would have allowed any of those goals today.

Yes, I remember Lyn; we've discussed him before. He had a kick like a mule and could put it penalty box to penalty box with ease. Keeper distribution wasn't key in those days and we scored many a goal from one of Lyn's booming assists direct into the oppo's penalty area. JB loved 'em!!

But Lyn was a good shot stopper as well and, being well built with a lot of attitude to go with it, as you said, he commanded his box with authority. So, Lyn or Hamer? Lyn all day and every day. Strange how some players 'make it' and others with a lot more talent don't.

 

[CroJack]

So let’s judge him on his work with us.

Yes, we should judge him on his work with us, and it's thumb down from me.

But, he persists on playing inferior players, square pegs in round holes, and over looking bona fide quality for his favorites who today went awol. Hamer / Benda. Manning / Bidwell, anybody / Fulton, Paterson / Cullen. The list goes on.

I don't think he persists so much on inferior players. He makes our players inferior by playing them in the positions they don't fit in, and he makes the whole team suffer by not having the right balance between the attack and defence in the starting XI. I feel it's like every time oppositions gets the ball they score against us.

And as for our goalkeepers I really don't know what to think anymore. Have you seen the mistakes Benda made in the game against Brentford 2?

Bidwell for Manning doesn't matter at all when both of them are normally parked high up the pitch. Agree on Fulton, he should at least be on the bench. Disagree about Cullen for Paterson, both of them should be in the starting XI. Paterson has been anonymous in the last two games, and that's again Martin's fault. It's his job to tell the players when they are doing something wrong. Paterson tends to drift to the left side and constantly pass the ball to either Manning or Bidwell. Instead, he should either attack the box or pass the ball to Ntcham and Piroe.

Martin’s statement about individual mistakes is laughable. Put the quality into their accustomed roles and stop football fantasy …. And then it will all work out. Whitaker instead of Paterson for all the good that Paterson did today.

He is right about the individual mistakes. Whittaker for Paterson doesn't make sense. Whittaker isn't an attacking midfielder. But Whittaker for Laird makes sense.

and put Cooper into the back line and move Naughton to a wider position. Use strength where it belongs.

Exactly.

Benda has to get the chance again. If he keeps making mistakes, then we need a new goalkeeper.
Two centre-backs in the centre-backs positions. Cooper and Bennett.
Bidwell/Manning on one, and Laird/Naughton on the other side as full-backs.
Grimes/Dawnes in the defensive midfield,
Paterson/Walsh and Ntcham/Fulton as attacking midfielders.
Cullen, Piroe and Whittaker/Obafemi up front.

That's it.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

Agree with all of the above. The hard work has been done. The cobwebs have been blown off Swanselona. We can now pass again. We don’t quite move with purpose at tempo, but that will come. What remains to be done is put round pegs in round holes, play to each player’s natural strengths and put players up front that relish beating a defender and crossing with quality instead of passing back for passing’s sake. Is that really that difficult to figure out, apparently it is.

It’s going to be another long tiresome season …. And now they’re already asking for season tickets to be renewed.

 

[Jackflash]

Well, I still think you were wrong. Because you couldn't know.

First of all, it's not true his only claim to fame was the amount of possession. He talked a lot about touches in the opposition third and ball recovery {pressing}

Second, it was difficult to judge him on his track record because he had been a manager for only 15 months when he signed for us.

Third, he took over at MK Dons on 5 November 2019 when they were in dire straits and then with the season finishing prematurely due to the Covid pandemic. So, his first season with MK Dons lasted just a couple of months.

Fourth, it's difficult to judge his work at MK Dons in 2020/21 season and not knowing the strength of their squad. This was MK Dons first real season in the League One, and I bet many thought they would be relegated. Also, that was another season without fans. I would say that for a team promoted from the League Two the 13th place is a success.

1/ Talking about touches in the oppositions final third is one thing, something any manager could do, getting them activated is another thing. I've not seen any evidence of this.
2/ He'd only been manager of a lower league club for 15 months. ! That's my argument, we as a club on the brink of Premiership football should not be looking at a 15 month Div 1 manager. A totally different level of football, there are times when he looks totally out of his depth at this level now.
3/ So unable to judge his performance in that period, even more reason not to employ him.
4/ Once again empty stadium football, and there's a big difference in promoting a club from Div2 to Div 1 as opposed to Championship to Premiership, and that certainly doesn't look on the cards under his management..
So really I wasn't that wrong. This guy is never going to get us promoted, I don't think he'll even get anywhere near Cooper's attempts.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

At the time, did Martínez have the chops to get us promoted to the Prem … it took Sousa then Rogers to achieve that goal.

we had the players and the manager with Potter but we went cheap and off loaded our bigger guns before the start of that season, which compromised Potter who had to do a refit in terms of football style. Cooper was not the guy to carry that work forward but used us to cut his own teeth with a stuttering job that was in many respects was self-defeating.

martin needs to get delusion out of his head and dose up on pragmatism. He has built a good platform. He has a striker that can finish given half a chance, in fact he has two but can’t figure out how to use them together. Like Cooper he persists on playing players that go invisible and have porous skill sets, which blows my mind.

 

[CroJack]

1/ Talking about touches in the oppositions final third is one thing, something any manager could do, getting them activated is another thing. I've not seen any evidence of this.

Not every manager can do it. Cooper, for example, can't. And the manager can't do anything if his players can't "activate" them, with other words score goals. Managers can't score goals.

Are you aware that we gifted the game to Cooper and Forest? Are you aware that our donkey goalkeeper gifted them at least two goals? Are you aware that Piroe, Ntcham and Lati fluffed three almost 100% chances??? Also, I hope you remember how we lost 1:5 to Bristol at the Liberty under Steve Cooper?

2/ He'd only been manager of a lower league club for 15 months. ! That's my argument, we as a club on the brink of Premiership football should not be looking at a 15 month Div 1 manager. A totally different level of football, there are times when he looks totally out of his depth at this level now.

I don't buy this "experience" and "lower league" argument. Martinez and Monk hadn't had any experience as managers when they got the job. Rodgers was inexperienced as well. Potter had managed a third rate Swedish team before he took over at Swansea. Mourinho had been a translator and assistant manager before he got his first job. Pep Guardiola had managed Barcelona U23 before he got Barca job. Klopp was a player-manager at Mainz.

3/ So unable to judge his performance in that period, even more reason not to employ him.

Not completely judge it, but see enough. We wanted our passing football back and we got it. And when we don't make personal mistakes we play a really good passing football. Now we play football where we have to earn wins, not steal them, like Steve Cooper just did last night with a huge help from our goalkeeper.

4/ Once again empty stadium football, and there's a big difference in promoting a club from Div2 to Div 1 as opposed to Championship to Premiership, and that certainly doesn't look on the cards under his management.

We don't know. We need to strengthen.

Goalkeeper

Benda is a better goalkeeper than Hamer, but both of them are a disaster waiting to happen. There is still a bit of hope for Benda if he can stop passing the ball to opposition attackers. Anyway, we need a new goalkeeper.

Centre-backs

If we want to continue to play with this risky, high back-line, then we need three new centre-halves who, at least, can match opposition wingers' pace. If we can't find them, then we have to stop playing our centre-backs as wide as we do.

Wingers instead of wing-backs

Our wing-backs play as high as wingers normally do, so why not use goalscoring wingers instead?

One more striker

Obafemi looks like he is lost in time and space. Get rid of him.

One more attacking midfielder

Ntcham is more a central/box-to-box than an attacking midfielder.

This guy is never going to get us promoted, I don't think he'll even get anywhere near Cooper's attempts.

Fuck Cooper. Fuck Monk. Fuck Dyche. Fuck Big Sam.

 

[ivoralljack]

Things looking very bleak for Russell Martin. I've been reading literally hundreds of comments from angry Swan's supporters 98% of whom think he's doing a terrible job. You can now add me to that number. It's not his philosophy I take issue with but it's the way he's trying to execute it. As @Yankee_Jack has described, and others have in different ways, he still insists on square pegs in round holes.

He will not put players in their naturally strongest positions and so many of them are struggling to adapt to their new roles whereas they were perfectly comfortable and competent in their old familiar positions. We have CBs as FBs, FBs as CBs, playmakers at DM and a lone striker who struggles for support and service.

Our passing is slow, predictable and now has become very sloppy as well. It's all going wrong for Martin who is so stubborn he persists with out of form players such as Hamer and Smith but totally ignores the claims of Fulton, Cullen and others who could make a difference. He just can't see it, can he? Or just won't see it!!!

It comes to something when a fanatical and hugely loyal supporter such as LadyGG, leaves before the end of the game in disgust and exasperation at what she's been seeing. Believe me that takes some believing but it happened so angry was she at how easy it was for Cooper's men to humiliate us. Cooper of all people, she told me, and on OUR ground!

Russell Martin had better start delivering else he'll find himself back in the lower divisions sooner than he'd like because the fans have had enough and have started to say so in large numbers. Oh, and signing lower level players just because they've played for him before won't cut it. I believe we're looking at another one from Ipswich. We need QUALITY, Mr Martin, not an MK Dons #2 set-up. Try Jack Wilshire, he's a footballer.

 

[Behindthegoal]

Having seen the performance of Guehi and Gallagher yesterday I’ve strengthened my belief that the quality of the players is a lot more important than the quality of the coaching.
Playing Cooperball we got to successive playoffs with talented teenage loanees.
Playing Martinball with seasoned journeymen ………….?