SWANS V BORE MUCH .

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
Naughton had an excellent game. Lati did a solid job. We lacked a player of quality up front. Lowe is a sub par player at this level in this role. Vik didn’t show much when he came on. Why isn’t Cullen given the nod every time. Dhanda also a designated starter in his role.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
A point and gd off first. Can’t be bad. Could be better - we’ve dropped points we shouldn’t have. Depth is either going to carry us through into January or it’s going to kill us.
 

Victoria Swan

Key Player
While it's true that they looked better than us I have to give it to Cooper and the rest of the staff in what they've done to make our defence nearly impenetrable. Even with all the injuries at the back and no two games with the same three at the back for half a dozen matches we continue to have clean sheets and a sense of security back there. Cabango's a tower of strength. Got to give credit where it's due - well done Cooper and Co. in finding the answer as to why we're up there challenging for promotion. It sure isn't because of our prolific goal-scoring!
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
Scum up next, they are on a good run at the moment , let's give them a thrashing.
Given their form compared with ours I think they're expecting to give us a thrashing. They've discovered how to score goals something that seems alien to us at the moment. Still, I'm happy with the point tonight against a very good team.
 

Jackflash

Midfield General
Staff member
While it's true that they looked better than us I have to give it to Cooper and the rest of the staff in what they've done to make our defence nearly impenetrable. Even with all the injuries at the back and no two games with the same three at the back for half a dozen matches we continue to have clean sheets and a sense of security back there. Cabango's a tower of strength. Got to give credit where it's due - well done Cooper and Co. in finding the answer as to why we're up there challenging for promotion. It sure isn't because of our prolific goal-scoring!
I agree the defence is good, I can't see it being down to Cooper, his staff yes. For the full 90 minutes of every game he's been in charge of he's never once taken his hands out of his pockets in any attempt to motivate the players whether we're winning or losing, I honestly think he's out of touch with football at this level. Even in training videos standing again hands in pockets. Do you ever see him briefing a sub before he goes on. The jump from schoolboy football to Premiership contenders is far to much for him. Is it coincidence that the three that elected him have jumped ship.
 

KVetch

Key Player
While it's true that they looked better than us I have to give it to Cooper and the rest of the staff in what they've done to make our defence nearly impenetrable. Even with all the injuries at the back and no two games with the same three at the back for half a dozen matches we continue to have clean sheets and a sense of security back there. Cabango's a tower of strength. Got to give credit where it's due - well done Cooper and Co. in finding the answer as to why we're up there challenging for promotion. It sure isn't because of our prolific goal-scoring!
What could be if Rodon was still in the mix. We're like the national side, keeping clean sheets but we have got to find a way to score. When it comes to playoffs and promotion a team has to be strong on both sides of the ball. We need someone who can create and help Ayew. We'll be in the playoffs as long as the owners don't sell half the squad in January.
 

Victoria Swan

Key Player
For the full 90 minutes of every game he's been in charge of he's never once taken his hands out of his pockets in any attempt to motivate the players whether we're winning or losing
Not sure having hands in pockets is in any way related to having footballing brain in head. Something or someone is motivating the squad and Cooper seems the obvious candidate as Grimes isn't exactly a Henderson, Kompany or Kane. You really do begrudge giving any credit to Cooper don't you @Jackflash !
 

Jackflash

Midfield General
Staff member
Sorry @Victoria Swan , but yes I do begrudge giving him any credit, to me he's an overpaid ballboy on the sideline. imo his staff are carrying him.. His pre & post match interviews hardly suggests he has a footballing brain. In the B/mouth game there were times we were getting slaughtered, did he ever once point out that a opposition player needed marking, no, hands in pockets looking on with that vacant look. Ayew does his job for him on the park,, pointing and directing players.. What in your opinion have you actually seen that makes him worthy of credit.
 
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Yankee_Jack

Key Player
@Jackflash ... has the main point. Ayew is effectively the captain on the field; he leads by example and by direction / motivation. Remember a few seasons back when Sig started calling the game on the field because BoBo was an ornament on the sideline. We have a similar scenario. Things appear to have improved with Tate in the team - he carries a lot presence and has been there done that within his own limitations as a player. He knows what really good is ... through Ferguson, Martinez, Sousa, Rogers and Laudrup.
 

Victoria Swan

Key Player
What in your opinion have you actually seen that makes him worthy of credit.
With the exception of Kyle Naughton we've had nothing but youngsters (Guehi, Cabango, Rodon, Lati) and newcomers (Bennett) in the back three all year and they have gelled to form the most secure defence in the Championship. You are not going to tell me that any of those are playing an 'Ayew-like' role in marshaling them into such a stellar defence are you? Or that Ayew is back there organising them? No, I find it hard to believe it is anything but some good work by Cooper (and, yes, helped by Tate I expect) that is paying that dividend.

And how about the remarkable improvement in performance for Conner Roberts (especially the last half dozen games) and Jake Bidwell (not so much the last couple of games)? Is that Ayew tracking back and commanding them? No, I think it's Cooper.

None of us can really comment knowledgeably without attending behind closed doors at training sessions and asking the players themselves but I do know that different managers have different styles and often their personal style has little to do with how well the team plays. Gary Speed did wonders with the Wales side, Roy Hodgson has been very successful at Crystal Palace and both were/are 'hands in the pockets' kind of managers. Equally there are maniacal managers bouncing up and down on the touchline screaming orders at players who are disasters for their team (Conte at Chelsea in my opinion).

Just because the highly exceptional and rare top-level managers like Pep and Klopp are animated on the touchline doesn't mean that ALL successful managers have to act that way. Like you, I'd prefer to see Cooper more animated and engaged with the players but clearly it just isn't his style. However, I also want a manager who takes us into the playoffs, like Cooper did last season, and who has developed the best defence in the Championship, like Cooper has this season. I'm orienting to the outcome/results not the process/style. In the case of the much improved and high-performing Swans defence Ocham's Razor dictates laying the accolades at Cooper's feet, just as I lay the blame there for our lack of goal-scoring at the moment by persisting with non-striker Lowe as our main man (as well as at the owners for not forking over the money to buy a decent striker!).

I still get the impression @Jackflash (and you too @Yankee_Jack ) that anything good that happens with our Swans you will claim to be because of anyone other than Cooper (Ayew, Tate, etc) and anything bad that happens always drops at the feet of Cooper. It's fine to not like the guy, but I think you should be fairer in your assessments of him and not automatically assume he's a shit manager - he DID take us to the playoffs (or was that Rhian Brewster?), he DID win an under 17 World Cup (or was that Gallangher?), and he IS crafting the Championship's best defence (or is that Tate?).
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
Good debate and opinions from you guys and I guess I'm somewhere in the middle ground. There's no doubt that Cooper is still making mistakes as he learns his trade with us and can expect criticism for them. However, I'm quite happy to dish out praise when it's called for as well. Unfortunately, Cooper does have a rather laid-back demeanour, which can rankle when we're under the cosh. But then we all address our problems in our own way.
 

KVetch

Key Player
I've heard and read this debate everywhere. I'd love to know what goes on in the dressing room and how effective Cooper is at getting results. We are his first club appointment. He's managed youth squads with Liverpool and Wrexham. And his U16 U17 England sides. He did win a World Cup for England, short list of men who can claim that status. Sure it was a U17 side with Brewster, Sancho, Foden, Morgan Gibbs-White, Hudson-Odoi, etc. Two of those former players Brewster and MGW have gladly returned to him with the Swans. Hudson Odoi is rumoured to be another January target. Those players must like him for a reason. Maybe he respects them or he goes easy on them I don't know.

I like how he's used Bidwell and Roberts wide. We have a glaring problem scoring but defensively we're much improved over last season. He narrowly got us into the playoffs with the help of Cullen, Routledge, Stoke and a Nottingham collapse. We're in a good position this season. We well should be with the squad we have on paper.

He's got to solve the finishing and scoring problem. His use of substitutions has been a problem, not recognizing when players need to come off. Could be fitness issues as well. I'd like to see more on the sidelines from him. He has stuck his neck out with comments on referring more than once. He's getting results and is on track to put us in the playoffs 2 years in a row. It's hard to picture him managing a Premier League side but if he brings us there credit to him.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
@Victoria Swan ... I'll eat crow when there's crow to be eaten, but it's still in the deep freeze. There was a moment at the end of August last season after the win at Leeds when we were top that I nibbled at crow and gave kudos for the start ... I had vehemently called him out for what he was on his arrival. But, not only did he revert to a mean he crashed right through it, and made sure I didn't have to eat more than a nibble because he spent the next two weeks during the international break tearing apart what we had been, and started the longest shit streak we've had in years. He even managed to make BoBo the Clown look less of a clown and ... and this really hurts ... made Monk look a half decent manager.

Cooper has no choice but to play the system 3+2. We have wing backs that are better than any of our wingers. They take up better positions out wide, can burn a defender every now and again, put over a superior cross, drive in at the far post and .... score goals. Our wing backs have scored 4 goals this season: our all time favorite starter, Lowe, as 1.

And, don't forget Andy Pandy stumbled into 3+2 on the resumption after the virus break because of injuries (??? I think), but he stumbled into it, got a victory and then clung to it like his life depended on it, which it did.

Andy Pandy needs 3+2 (with two sitting midfield players) to do what Sousa did with 4 ... and Sousa was getting murdered on forums for our supposedly poor, boring play. Turns out it wasn't so much Sousa as people like Monk undercutting him. Remember, Sousa was the manager who didn't have a #9 ... he'd have been brilliant with the likes of Cullen and Ayew ... but had to slog along with the likes of Sick Note Beattie, the Bull, and that Finnish guy.

So when Andy Pandy can cut his puppet strings, show some engagement with his job, expound an original idea and execute, I stand ready to applaud.
 

Jackflash

Midfield General
Staff member
@Victoria Swan , What you say about Cooper is based on assumptions, as to what you assume he's doing behind closed doors. My criticism of him is what I see, which really amounts to nothing. Let's assume behind closed doors he works out a game plan, are we to believe the players adhere to that plan for 70 games, that never once in 70 games has he had to take his hands out of his pockets to point out to a player their error.
My take on this is that he has no idea of a game plan. His backroom boys are actually streets ahead of him. Take note the next time we make a substitution, he goes and consults with his staff, then points to a player to get changed. These are things I see, not assume.
 
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