QPR

[ivoralljack]

Looks like our game with QPR will be off because they have 10 players out due to Covid. Pity about that because we probably would have smashed a team made up of youngsters and second stringers. Shame that we can't refer the matter to the FIA who would probably regard it as a fair match and allow us to play. They might even have given us a two goal start as well!!

 

[Behindthegoal]

. I still wouldn’t bet on us. They’d have to play added time until the correct result emerged.

 

[CroJack]

Looks like our game with QPR will be off because they have 10 players out due to Covid

...which is utter nonsense.
Does it mean next time we have our key-players out either injured or suspended we can have our games postponed? Of course, not.

Pity about that because we probably would have smashed a team made up of youngsters and second stringers

Last time I checked they had 22 first squad players. And even if they fielded their U18 against us, judging on our recent form I am pretty sure they would have smashed us.

Shame that we can't refer the matter to the FA who would probably regard it as a fair match and allow us to play.

A couple of years ago the FA forced Liverpool to field their U23 and U18 squad in the Carabao League Cup fourth round. Liverpool first team squad was in the Middle East playing The Club World Cup. The FA (EFL) didn't show any mercy then.

 

[ivoralljack]

...which is utter nonsense.
Does it mean next time we have our key-players out either injured or suspended we can have our games postponed? Of course, not.

Totally agree. There may be aliens on some distant planet who don't know about Covid and its threat but everyone on this earth does. If football clubs fail to police their players properly then they should be made to face the consequences ie play the fixture with whatever players they do have fit. If it happens in certain rugby competitions, a team that fails to fulfill a fixture forfeits the game 28-0. Something similar in football would focus the minds of the clubs and make them more diligent in the control of their players and staff.

 

[ivoralljack]

. I still wouldn’t bet on us. They’d have to play added time until the correct result emerged.

Last time I checked they had 22 first squad players. And even if they fielded their U18 against us, judging on our recent form I am pretty sure they would have smashed us.

Also agree with both these points. If I didn't know any better I'd think our lot aren't overly bothered about promotion. Certainly their lack of energy, fight and commitment all point to this.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

I guess the powers that be are neutral only when it's two English clubs involved.: Leicester v Spurs goes ahead despite plea

 

[ivoralljack]

Totally agree. There may be aliens on some distant planet who don't know about Covid and its threat but everyone on this earth does. If football clubs fail to police their players properly then they should be made to face the consequences ie play the fixture with whatever players they do have fit. If it happens in certain rugby competitions, a team that fails to fulfill a fixture forfeits the game 28-0. Something similar in football would focus the minds of the clubs and make them more diligent in the control of their players and staff.

Quoting my own post here because something relevant has occurred. Ospreys were unable to play their last game against Racing 92 of Paris (because of Covid) in a European competition, so they were deemed to have lost the game 0-28 (equivalent to 4 converted trys) and Racing were awarded the maximum 5 points for a bonus point win. It would focus the minds of football clubs if they failed to play a fixture and their opponents were awarded a 4-0 win and 3 points. ALL clubs have a squad plus academy players, so they could get a team on the field. If it's a severely weakened team that's their fault: they should have taken greater care with their Covid regime.

 

[ivoralljack]

PS: The latest figures show that some 25% of football players have not been vaccinated for one reason or another. The clubs, as far as possible, should bring them into line or pay the price!!

 

[ivoralljack]

To jab or not to jab, that is the question. I was reading today that only 68% of Premier League players have been double vaccinated. Compare the following: the figures for comparable leagues abroad read: SPAIN 90%; GERMANY 94%; FRANCE 95%; ITALY 98%. Some difference, eh? And, as I understand it, NO GAMES were cancelled in those leagues whereas our fixtures were almost decimated!!

This arrogance and stupidity must stop. Now!! I'm sick and tired of our over-privileged, self-entitled footballers causing disruption to our game for their own selfish reasons. And I'm not alone. NO JAB, NO JOB, is the view of Burnley owner Alan Pace. He believes that anti-vax footballers need to pay a price for their stance and is furious with footballers who refuse even a single injection.

He stated that it worries him for a number of reasons but these are personal choices for people. It can't be, though, that you put everybody else at risk. If they choose not to get vaccinated, then THEY MAY HAVE TO CHOOSE A DIFFERENT CAREER. Freedom, to choose something different doesn't mean you get the same rights and opportunities given to you if you choose to do something that's not in the best interests of everyone else.

Some players are responsible such as Son Heung-min who has been double-jabbed on the basis that he felt he needed it because he didn't want to infect other players or other people if he had it. Bravo, Son!! As one fan put it, "I know about human rights but if I was working on a building site and was told that I had to wear steel toe-capped boots (or a hard hat) then I'd have to do it. Why can't players be told by The Premier League and the clubs that they have to be vaccinated?"

Jurgen Klopp is one man talking sense and subscribes to the view that players should be jabbed because the science tells us that it's the right thing to do. Meantime there is growing opinion that ANTI-VAX PLAYERS SHOULDN'T BE PICKED and I'm of that opinion.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

I've had triple Pfizer. I have a friend that works at Pfizer on the COVID vaccine project. I can tell you that Pfizer is very excited about the vaccine platform that they have developed with a lab partner in Germany. They plan on extending the platform to flu and shingles vaccines in the very near future and then expand the application from there.

I have been vaccinated for easily a dozen different pathogens in my life driven by travel requirements (Cholera) and general need (polio, smallpox etc ... the old timers will have had those). As a child I had no choice in the matter. As an adult I've never given vaccination a second thought. The Pfizer COVID vaccinations were about as benign a shot as I've ever had; no immediate adverse effect whatsoever.

A vaccination doesn't prevent you from contracting the disease but it does minimizes its impact as your body handles and dispatches the infection in short order. A vaccinated person should always exercise prudence. I've had Cholera vaccine but I'm not going to jump into putrid water and swim around. I have had anti-tetanus, but I'm not going to entice a dog to bite me or be careless about getting myself cut in dirty environments. I've had COVID vaccine but I don't want to congregate with anti-vax types who could easily carry and spread and expose me unnecessarily.

If a person doesn't want to get vaccinated, then that is their choice ... but they then become liable for the consequences ... for their ill-heath, the transmission of ill-health to others and the resulting costs and damages. In the football context, players that refuse to get vaccinated that contract the disease and transmit it to others resulting in loss of performance, loss of revenue then they should be docked the costs from their wages. If they refuse to get vaccinated their contracts should be suspended and they should be banned from the club's facilities as they pose an enhanced risk to the well being of others. Facing consequences and financial sanctions always grounds the individual.

Anti-vax players should be culled from the herd ... one way or the other.

 

[ivoralljack]

If a person doesn't want to get vaccinated, then that is their choice ... but they then become liable for the consequences ... for their ill-heath, the transmission of ill-health to others and the resulting costs and damages. In the football context, players that refuse to get vaccinated that contract the disease and transmit it to others resulting in loss of performance, loss of revenue then they should be docked the costs from their wages. If they refuse to get vaccinated their contracts should be suspended and they should be banned from the club's facilities as they pose an enhanced risk to the well being of others. Facing consequences and financial sanctions always grounds the individual.

Anti-vax players should be culled from the herd ... one way or the other.

Absolutely!!

 

[The Blobster]

How many anti vaxers in our squad ?

 

[Yankee_Jack]

Spurs out of Europa Conference League

Tottenham are out of the Europa Conference League after Uefa rules they forfeited their final match against Rennes.

www.bbc.com

UEFA axed Spurs from the Europa competition because of the postponed match against Rennes due to Spurs' COVID outbreak - they awarded Rennes a. 3-0 victory. That's a financial sanction on the club right there. Tough love!?! This is what the EPL/EFL should do. It would straighten things out quite quickly - unfortunately with the EPL/EFL you have the clubs effectively judging their own conduct.

 

[ivoralljack]

I believe in the freedom of choice because so many people, for whatever reason, don't have that. So, if someone chooses NOT to be vaccinated, I respect their choice. BUT BUT, if their choice puts their fellow human beings at risk of disease and, in many cases, death, then they should be held responsible if it is so proved. And I won't even go into the catastrophic effect it has on the NHS!! We all know.

Anti-vaxers should be forced into lockdown, whomever and wherever they are to minimise the risk of their infecting others. This is NOT to persecute them, it is for the greater good of the community at large. All too often, the anti-vaxer is a younger, fitter person whom, even if they contract Covid, can recover from it because of their general state of health. BUT that isn't the point is it? The danger lies in the passing it on to older, more vulnerable people. We live in dangerous, turbulent times and I think we have to accept certain Draconian measures to try and contain the spread of Covid until such time as a cure can be found.

A general lockdown, imo, is a step too far. People lose their jobs because businesses become unprofitable and are forced to close down. That means more and more people having to rely on benefits and less and less money coming into Government coffers to pay them. And less money to fund the NHS. It's a recipe for disaster and it has to be stopped.

A good start would be to take anti-vaxers off the streets to greatly lessen the effects of this filthy bug that's creating havoc worldwide. For me, it's a worthwhile step to take. The equation is, do we inconvenience anti-vaxers with home confinement or leave them free to spread disease and death amongst the rest of us? It's a no-brainer for me.

 

[CroJack]

Anti-vaxers are not important in this whole story. They are loud on social media, but there aren't many of them.

1. Unfortunatelly, the Covid vaccines have been a failure so far. All of them. The massive vaccination effort around the world has been undermined by the rapid drop of protection already three months after the second jab. I hope I don't need to quote the journal Science here. Now we are trying to do something with the booster jabs, but although they will reduce the number of deaths they will not stop the pandemic.

2. When you have vaccines whose effectiveness dropps dramatically after 3-6 months, and if you want the vaccination to be successful, then you have to vaccinate 80% of the population very fast. It should take max. 15 - 30 days. And if you have a pandemic, then you have to do that on a global scale. Coordinated. At the same time. Which is almost impossible logistically. Otherwise, it won't work, because the virus will mutate.

3. A pandemic can only be defeated by a coordinated global action. And if you want to use vaccine to end the pandemic, then you can't expect results if you vaccinate 80% of Europe and USA, and 4% of Africa. You can't blame antivaxers' minority in Europe for the South African coronavirus mutation called Omicron, can you? Or Indian Delta variant. Or Brazilian variant, and so on. Blaming antivaxers doesn't make sense at all.

4. We have to understand three different strategies the countries around the world have been using to fight this pandemic.

• Elimination strategy. Used initially by China, and adopted by Taiwan, New Zealand, Australia and some other countries. The idea was to eliminate the virus completely from the community and shut the borders to prevent an import of the virus from abroad. This strategy has been hugely effective and successful at reducing the number of Covid cases and deaths.
• Herd immunity strategy. Adopted by Sweden. Try to protect the elderly, ban the mass events, work from home if it's possible, and keep the distance. No masks, no lockdowns. Let the virus wipe through the young and healty population.
• Mitigation strategy. This strategy uses partial lockdowns to postpone cases and deaths in order to prevent the health system being overwhelmed. Unfortunatelly, 98% countries have used this strategy.

We could have already stopped the pandemic in 2020 had we used either elimination or herd immunity strategy globally.
We will never be able to stop this pandemic by using vaccines whose effectiveness dropps dramatically after 3-6 months.
It seems that mother nature has saved our ass by mutating the virus and sending to us a highly contagious but much milder Omicron variant.

 

[ivoralljack]

Very interesting, CJ. Nevertheless, vaccination has to have SOME effect and is doing so. Better that than nothing. Our Ospreys rugby team has had to cancel yet another fixture as they have EIGHTEEN positive cases in their squad. Yet another example of young fit men believing they are immortal! Thing is, how many other people have they transmitted it to who are not so immune?

 

[Yankee_Jack]

Again vaccination doesn't prevent infection, it causes the body's own immune system to rise and conquer. And, probably suppress transmission since all of the vectors of transmission (coughing etc) are suppressed or eliminated by the body's response. The latter being the key to suppressing each wave of mutation.

There is serious health, well-being, and economic damage propagated by those that fail to vaccinate, fail to mask, fail to take personal responsibility. For me, where I live, life is almost "normal" despite daily positives recently climbing to 8%. But, I VMP (vax, mask, and take personal responsibility). It's those that don't that disserve society. I would also argue that those that fail to VMP are also the first to wimper and whine about and undermine the imposition of the three strategies, which can all be successful given a societal commitment. However, such a commitment is only as strong as its weakest link. And, its the weak links that are the problem. This really isn't rocket science, but some people seem to believe that they are more special than the whole ... and this cannot be tolerated. Sanctions have to be levied against those that deny reality, deny personal responsibility and propagate harm. Exercising freedom carries the burden of responsibility, culpability and being subject to sanction when damage is done ... classic tort.

From a football perspective (in many ways a microcosm of society in a 90 minute event on a field), is it more advantageous to have a team of XI, or a team eleven "1s", or for that matter a team of X plus 1. Time and again the team of XI tends to be superior in outcomes. Consider the Forest match, we were woefully undone by our weakest links ... and we all recognize who they are ... it's no secret, but Martin doesn't have the balls to recognize and accept that he has made a faulty decision (e.g. Hamer v Benda) and correct. This is a profound failure in leadership and mirroring society as a whole which suffers from a profound failure of leadership with respect to COVID.

A contracted athlete has a personal responsibility to self, to team, to the fan base to VMP and if they have an immediate family to that family, and conversely that family has a personal responsibility to the athlete in creating and sustaining a bubble of limited risk. Pop the bubble and we end up where we are.

 

[ivoralljack]

Here is an extract from a Christmas message that my friends in France send every year. It's an interesting take on the French rules about Covid and vaccination. Make of it what you will.


Hi everyone,

Another year of Covid with limited lockdowns interspersed with periods of freedom.

We have been lucky in our part of the world with very few cases near us. In Luçon, (our big town with nearly 10,000 inhabitants!) there have been sporadic outbreaks involving predominantly young healthy people. The larger cities have had far higher rates than us with Paris and Marseilles being badly hit.

The system of containment in France has been stricter than in many other countries. Most towns and cities require you to wear masks in public.

If you wish to travel by train, tube or bus, masks are again mandatory. You also need to have a stamped covid “passport” (also on your phone) for travel, restaurants, concerts, some shopping etc.

Most people are vaccinated, but we have a hard core of people who refuse to do so; it was greater before the passport system came into force which made younger people and the more gregarious elderly folks decide to go for the vaccine.

You are also required to ensure you have any boosters due for your age group as the “passport” will automatically cease if you are not vaccinated.

If you work in government service or in healthcare, vaccinations are mandatory. If you do not have your vaccine by the due date, you will be suspended without pay for up to three months. If you do not have it within this space of time, you are dismissed.

All this may seem very harsh, but the country has a much lower rate of infection than most of Europe.


The penultimate paragraph might be relevant for our footballers and sports people. No jab, no job.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

There's the marketing slogan for you .... No jab, NO JOB.