Morgan Whittaker Signing

IanABS94

Key Player
Striker from Derby County, 20 years old and has worked with Cooper beforehand. Has potential apparently but one for the academy I think. £700,000 price tag though so better have something about him.
 

Victoria Swan

Key Player
As I said over on the Cullen thread I think this is potentially a really good signing along the lines of Rhian Brewster - not just an Under23/academy boy. Derby fan keen on him and he's 20+ games experience in the first team: From twitter:



DCFCtalk
@Dcfctalk2

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22h

Whitaker has so much potential. Could be a great signing for swans


charlie
@charlie_dcfc

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22h

Cooper will make him into such a good player. I rate Whittaker very highly but cocu killed his confidence at the start of the season when he was playing well and then just stopped playing him and Rooney put the final nail in the coffin when he subbed him on and off at Stoke
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
Whitaker has so much potential. Could be a great signing for swans
With his match experience then clearly he would be a better candidate than Vik was to deliver value. If we've lost Cullen for the season then he and Morris have big roles to play and both seem match-day ready.

Cooper will make him into such a good player.
Let's not get out over our skies. Andy Pandy ... big ask ... perhaps with Tate's guidance.

What I'm surprised at is Rooney let this kid go and didn't see enough in him to use him or try to keep him. Perhaps Rooney isn't the best judge. Perhaps Derby needed the cash and this was the best option. Perhaps Rooney has seen enough and advised the club to cash him out. Rooney would have the most knowledge of the kid in practice and match to know his strengths and weaknesses.

It will be interesting to see what happens from here.

If we get promoted ... one thing for sure ... we'll have the youngest squad in the league.
 

Victoria Swan

Key Player
Let's not get out over our skies. Andy Pandy ... big ask ... perhaps with Tate's guidance.
It does get tiresome @Yankee_Jack - your complete inability to give ANY credit to our manager. I believe you said lots of positive things about Hourihane. Well, he says the main reason he chose to come from Villa to us over other clubs was Cooper. And when it comes to the last few transfer windows it's clear that he's not the only one who came to us because of Cooper -- Brewster, Gallagher, and Guehi for starters. As I've said before there are lots of things I think Cooper can do better (using substitutes for instance) but I am keen to give him credit for the many things he is clearly doing well (e.g. giving confidence and, therefore, getting great performances out of young talent). Your 'analysis' of Cooper's performance might have more credibility if it took account of his positives and didn't just assume anything good was due to someone else (e.g. Tate) any anything bad was due to him.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
in the last three games we’ve beaten up on the two teams at the bottom of the league, but we played anemic defensive football lacking any belief at home against Brentford where I believe we were out shot 2 to 20 something. Andy Pandy’s job is to ensure that the team on the field doesn’t spend 90 minutes playing like that .... or at least until the sending off of Naughton.

cause and effect is observable. Tate came on the scene and things started to change around. Maybe just a correlation, but he’s one of the few, perhaps the only member of staff that’s had big time playing experience, been coached by and observed some of our best coaches and managers ever. Martinez in particular has had a stellar career as a coach and manger, since 2016 with Belgium ranked #3 by FIFA. Let’s credit Tate with the ability to watch and learn.

Andy Pandy has a propensity for underwhelming in a variety of ways. Have we so easily forgotten the shit streak that started in Sept 2019 upon return from an international break, with exactly the same players that had been unbeaten and top of the table before the break. Did the entire squad just switch off, or did he manage to undo whatever carry over there was from Potter. At the end of last season, driven by suspension and injury, he stumbled upon the 3+2 system, won a game and has never looked back. If he’s such a stellar coach why didn’t he come up with this previously .... the players didn’t change. Who suggested that switch .... a significant change in setup .... and if I remember correctly before the switch, I was commenting that our best wingers were our FBs and why were we persisting with a regular back 4. It was patently obvious for a while what our strengths were.

Andy Pandy’s association with the best group of well coached kids England could produce has been his trump cards. He’s running out of that cohort. Will we pony up the money to buy Guehi or will he disappear ... what then. Brewster has moved on. Gallagher has moved on. Wilmot moved on. Vik was brought in an played instead of developing our own Cullen. Who is making the player analysis, selection and acquisition decisions. Exactly what is Andy Pandy’s contribution to that. Andy Pandy’s player relationships that can be leveraged are soon to run out. Hourihane came here because we are a team at the top of the table ... a much better situation to join than any other.
 

Victoria Swan

Key Player
You mistake me for someone who wholeheartedly supports Cooper. As I pointed out, I do not. Mine is merely a call to be even handed.

In your mind we are to ignore Hourihane's statement that he came to us because of Cooper and replace it with your surmise that he came to us because we're close to the top of the league. We are to discount the switch to three at the back because Cooper discovered it accidentally through injury not by any sort of analysis and decision. We should forget the fact that Cooper has developed the best defense in the entire Football League (despite suffering numerous injuries back there) because it's actually Tate who has done that. We shouldn't be proud of the fact that some of England's most promising youngsters want to work with our manager because somehow winning a World Cup with U17 players doesn't count for anything at Championship level (and/or it's time limited). And so on.

My desire is for you to be fair-minded and give credit where credit's due @Yankee_Jack. I am not blindly praising Cooper for anything he does - Jeez, I'd love him to have gone after Brentford instead of sitting back like we did, use his substitutes better, show more emotion, have a more coherent Plan B on numerous occasions, put work into Woody's abysmal distribution - but I am giving him some praise for, among other things, being able to bring in some great players in the last few transfer windows, solidifying a wickedly good defense, bringing the absolute best out of Connor Roberts and Jake Bidwell, knowing how to bring on young talent and give them confidence (look at the difference between Brewster managed by Cooper and managed by Chris Wilder). He has lots still to learn but along that journey he's not doing a bad job with us.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
You are putting words into my mouth, unfairly I might add, based on your inference not my statements.

Let's revisit.

What Hourihane said in an interview with the Club's PR people and the practical reasons for the move may be well aligned or may not be. Any player in that position is going to flatter. It's a nice thing to say, but I don't think it means much. Here are the facts of the matter: Hourihane is 29 ... he's not developing any more - he needs to make sure his pension is well funded. He was surplus to requirements at Villa - he'd made 4 league and 1 cup appearances this season. Faced with limited time on the bench he was loaned out, either by request or Villa wanted to shift cost. Faced with a loan out, let me think ... where would I like to land ... a club at the top of a league with a midfield hitherto somewhat lack luster where perhaps I could get game time ... or a club with a no name coach who thinks he might teach me a few things. Tough one to figure out that but since they both end up being the same place it could be one, it could be both, it could be neither, but I'd bet money on the league position and local midfield quality being a bigger driver.

I have not discounted the switch to 3+2. I merely pointed out that after spending most of the season piddling around, circumstances led to 3+2, a positive result was had, and then another, and he stuck with it. Any coach would be a total moron to have walked away from that - although if I remember correctly he did revert to 4 at the back for a game perhaps two and it didn't exactly work out. If you want to give him credit for sticking with a winning hand instead of throwing in a pair of wing backs to draw two other cards then fine ... but it's what he's paid to do isn't it. Let's all celebrate that he did what he is paid to do.

I have never suggested that Tate has done anything other than be present, and observing that Tate increasingly never seems to be far away, and that Tate has some pedigree, and amongst all other staff would have a more robust and rounded background from which to whisper words of wisdom. Did Andy Pandy actually take any whispers on board ... who's to say ... but Tate isn't likely giving him the winner of the 3 o'clock at Aintree. And if Tate's contribution is not valued why have him there.

The players that have formed our defense: Rodon (at one time), Cabango, Roberts are all home grown and the product of Roberts/Toshack. VdH and now Bennet were/are already developed. Same with Naughton, he came out of the oven a long time ago.. Guehi has been developed by Chelsea. It must be said that Bidwell has improved solidly since his arrival - why? who's to say but if that's all down to Andy Pandy then god bless him ... but is it? I don't know. I'm at a loss to see exactly which players Andy Pandy has developed. He has an association with a cohort of young players that he coached in tournaments, but that's not exactly the day to day work of Roberts/Toshack or the people at Chelsea or the people at Liverpool. That's like giving a jeweler credit for arranging gems in a setting, when the mining, cutting and polishing of the gems is done somewhere else.

As for Connor Roberts - he was at his peak during Potter's reign, he was not the same last season at all. He's been better this season. Certainly strong performances, notching assists and goals. But bringing the "absolute best" out of him?

Let's talk about bringing in great players ... Andy Scott is the head of recruitment. What's the division of labor, analysis and decision making between Scott and Cooper. Scott is the relatively unknown, unnamed person who played 355 games, scoring 75 goals for several football league clubs. Over an 8 year period he managed Brentford, Rotherham, Aldershot. Since 2015 he has been head of recruitment at Brentford, Watford and us. Scott didn't fall off the back of a turnip truck yesterday. Forgetting everything else, Scott has spent twice as much time heading recruitment in the top leagues than Andy Pandy has coaching / managing. Since we really don't know shit about who is calling the shots ... let's flip a coin ... are you betting on Andy Pandy being the big decider or Andy Scott.

So let's be positive: Andy Pandy still looks a lot like his name sake ... a wooden marionette from a '60s child show all grown up and looking stoned or taken one too many botox shots. He has more recently been a tad more animated. There have been times when his hands have come out of his pockets. And he did actually shout a few times over the last few games. Major strides. I applaud the effort and admire the improvement.

I try wherever possible to make observations and relay them. I try to look for data where it exists and be driven by that. I don't oversell and I don't get hyped up when somebody is just doing his job. There have been far too many matches where we have been out managed from the side line. I'd love to be able to point to one game where our cunning fox out smarted, out hustled, out maneuvered the other side ... I'm open to suggestions. Give me one game; give me one half even! I think I am fair minded. I haven't criticized him that much at all recently. We're in 2nd place ... what's to criticize?

@ivoralljack ... has made comments on this or another thread relating to our possible fate if we were promoted. And it's an interesting topic for discussion - the comparison of Rogers v Cooper and Rogers' squad v Cooper's squad and Swanselona v Cooper-ball. Roger's had Gower on the field against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge ... Gower was one of the quintessential players in the Premier League, but nowhere near a Premier League player ... just a neat and tidy player that could be a highly functioning cog in the system. Gower punched above his weight as did quite a few others - how and why did they do that? I remember Orlandi making a return from injury at Villa when we won our first away game. Sig added a touch of real quality on his arrival. As a whole the team/squad played as a well oiled cohesive unit in a style unique to the times. Rogers' was a shrewd operator on the touchline and motivator. I'd really like to think that this squad is stronger. I'd really like to think that our 3+2 system is as solid as a rock. But our midfield is nowhere near as coherent and polished as Sig/Briton/Allen or even Augustien/Briton/Allen or whoever else we trotted out. Is Lowe/Ayew a better combination than Sinclair/Graham? What I am cringing about is Cooper v (Pep, Klopp, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Dyche, Bruce, ... Allardyce). Fat Sam ... he'd just laugh at Cooper. When the players are getting the run around and they look to the touch line for help ... who are they going to see? Against Brentford ... who did they see, what help did they get?

I'm happy to eat crow. Delighted to eat crow! But, Andy Pandy is not serving it up.
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
I see you two are at it again :ROFLMAO: and all I can say is that I find both of your posts/comments really interesting and you both raise valid points. The best thing for me is that neither of you have resorted to the childish name-calling and insults that we see on some forums. Each of you have strong feelings about this but each of you has taken the trouble to produce lengthy posts to argue your point of view in an adult fashion.

All I can do is to say thank you (y), because what you are doing is the essence of healthy debate on a forum and makes for an entertaining and informative read for the rest of us - at least, that's how it is for me. So thanks again, gents, keep arguing and keep being forum friends. :)
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
I was surprised to see how tall he is. On the field standing alongside other players. He looks slight, but he's got a lot of body in his height.

Against City, he took 3 touches to score within the first minute or two of entering the field ... all on the same move. The first a header on the right side of the field that ended up in Swans' possession. The second to control the pass he received in the box from the left side of the field. The third to slot it home.

Highly efficient. Very impressive. Forget Morris, he's a practice cone. Play MW.
 

CroJack

Key Player
Forget Morris, he's a practice cone.
We can't judge a player by a 10 minutes cameo against Norwich, where he actually won a penalty, and 66 minutes against Manchester City, a game where he was starved for any supply and where we had 24% possession. Now I know you are going to say "Whittaker scored after 1 minute". Yes, it happens a player scores after just 1 minute on the pitch, but that doesn't mean the player is a new Messi. Don't get me wrong, the kid has talent.

I think Morris played well in both games. His movement up front is excellent, and, for a striker, he is an excellent passer.

As for his lack of match-fitness, we have to understand that the MLS has a long winter break. He'll be all right.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
He’ll be alright by when? He needs to be alright today! Faced with Whittaker that comes match ready despite having ridden the bench or the stands under Rooney, then scores a goal as he did, we play Whittaker as a priority as a starter as necessary and as a sub in every game.

I hear what you’re saying @CroJack but clearly recruitment dropped the ball here. Either they see Morris as “one for the future” and he’s on a 3 month trial or they didn’t factor his lack of fitness. We lost Cullen and Routs though injury. We didn’t need a trialist we needed a starter. Whittaker fits that bill.

Now if I’m Andy Pandy, what do I do? Where am I going to spend / waste my time? I have to deliver today! I’m not starting Morris in preference to Whittaker, I’m getting Morris in for extras every day of the week trying to ram him through a preseason protocol in the hope that I can turn him useful quick .... meanwhile I’m managing work load and match preparation on my squad to play and win two matches a week. I’d be 🤬 annoyed ... especially if Morris arrived as an alternative to somebody else on my preferred list, somebody match ready. And I have to say, that to the extent that Andy Pandy can express emotion, his terse comments in the Norwich pre-match interview was clearly an expression of frustration if not annoyance.

🤬 I’m advocating for Andy Pandy. What’s the world coming to?
 
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CroJack

Key Player
Patience is a key word @Yankee_Jack. You didn't have much patience when it comes to Lowe, so please don't judge a player on one 10 minutes cameo, and a FA Cup game against one of the best teams in the world.

You say he is not delivering now. Well, had that penalty been awarded to us in the Norwich game, and Morris scored from the penalty, then we would sing songs about him.
And as for the Manchester City game, he made all the right moves and runs, but the other players failed to feed him. I really see a good player there.
 
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