Martin speaks!

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
Yes, we have been patient but patience is coming at a premium these days. Has he been reading this forum? What he says he's looking for is what we've been demanding for yonks. Let's hope the message has finally hit home. This is what he said:


"The fans have been incredibly positive and patient since we’ve been here, but we’re very much still a work in progress," he added. "We spoke about it with the players, we expect a certain level of performance and how the game is going to look.

"We have to give the supporters more energy, more risk in the final third, more aggressiveness in the final third and more willingness to put the ball into dangerous areas and make the opposition defend.


Okay, we would all agree with that final paragraph but, Mr Martin, can we please see some of it on the pitch? You and the players have had long enough to implement it.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
I struggle to believe that players, who've been kicking a ball around the organized game since they were 8 to 10 years old, have suddenly become so risk averse that they prefer a pass backwards to defenders rather than crossing the ball in the final third. When, until coming under Martin's coaching, crossing the ball in the final third would have been a matter of rote ... I would think.

So Martin's words ring a tad hollow. The players have spent just over a year being coached and drilled by Martin ... they have been doing what he's asked, expected, demanded them to do. They've been playing to his system. And now, he's admonishing them to be more "normal". As a player, if I wasn't so confused, I'd be LMAO.
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
Totally agree. They are obviously playing to orders but why are they so afraid to do something different, what's right when it's obvious?
 

CroJack

Key Player
I struggle to believe that players, who've been kicking a ball around the organized game since they were 8 to 10 years old, have suddenly become so risk averse that they prefer a pass backwards to defenders rather than crossing the ball in the final third.
Actually, we were all wrong when it comes to crossing. Against Blackburn Swansea had 31 crosses, which is second-most so far in the Championship.

WBA against Watford 42 crosses !
Swansea against Blackburn 31 crosses.
Preston against Hull 31 crosses.

So, we have massively improved when it comes to attempted crossing but not when it comes to cross accuracy. Apart from Paterson crosses, we are pretty crap in that department. Also, we can't blame Martin for Fulton's mistake, for the fact that Wood was out-muscled for Blackburn second, and that Fisher conceded at the near post from a tight angle for Blackburn's third. Not to mention that Obafemi was awful both against Rotherham and Blackburn, that some of our players don't attack empty areas in the middle of the opposition half but rather immediatelly pass the ball back etc.

I created spider charts for both Rotherham and Blackburn games to illustrate better what I am talking about. Please, ask me if you don't understand something.

This is the only place where you will find quality shots as a metric. Quality shots is an important metric and it shows us how good one team's attackers are.

Just to remind you what quality shots are:

- all shots goals are scored from, apart from lucky deflected shots off target
- all shots on target that require goalkeeper save or an active block from opposition player

These shots are not quality shots:

- shots off target
- shots on target that are easily saved (weak shots)
- blocked shots on target that don't require an active block from a defender

As you can imagine, I don't give a shit about shots and shots on target stats if they are not quality shots.

Also, my definition of through ball is more extensive then what you can find on the football stats sites. I define through ball as any pass that bypasses opposition lines. Actually, through balls in my world are progressive direct passes that bypass opposition lines.

Here is one example:

This direct pass from Grimes to Ntcham is a through ball because it goes through enemy lines.
With one direct pass Grimes bypasses 5 Blackburn players.

Through Ball.jpg

Unfortunatelly Ntcham immediatelly passes the ball back to Grimes, he should instead attack the empty area in the middle of the pitch
and with another through ball send Piroe one-on-one with Blackburn keeper. But it's easier to pass the ball back, isn't it?

NtchamFails.jpg


Rotherham (light blue) v Swansea (pink)

1. Rotherham v Swansea - SpiderChart-2.jpeg


Swansea (pink) v Blackburn (light blue)

2. Swansea v Blacburn-SpiderChart-2.jpeg
Rotherham beat us at both shots on target and quality shots, and Blackburn beat us at quality shots stats. What does this tell you? Our players have been poor a) against Rotherham when it comes to scoring from chances, as well as for allowing Rotherham to create high number of high quality chances, and b) against Blackburn when our strikrrs didn't attack many crosses and our defenders made crucial mistakes. I hope Allen and Cabango will improve our defensive part of the game, and Obafemi pull his shit together.


Tomorrow I'll create spider charts for the defensive part.
 
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CroJack

Key Player
Here are progressive passing maps for the Swansea v Blackburn game.

This time I omitted forward passes in our own half. They are not so important anyway,
they are just an unnecessary noise.

Left side is first, and right side is second half.
Yellow arrows = successful passes
Red arrows = unsuccessful passes


Obafemi has been so disappointing in the first
two games of the season. Against Blackburn he didn't make a single forward pass.
He has to drop down from time to time, receive the ball, and at least try to find Piroe.
I really think it's time he is benched.

Obafemi-Blackburn.jpeg

When it comes to progressive forward passing Ntcham had a good game, especially in the second half
when he started to pass (cross) the ball into the Blackburn box. That's what we want from him when
he playes behind Obafemi together with Piroe in the attacking midfield area. The problem with Ntcham is that he
still doesn't attack empty spaces in front of the opposition box when he should but rather imeddiatelly passes the ball back.

Ntcham-Blackburn.jpeg


It's a mistery that Patterson didn't start the match but when he was introduced in the second half we
suddenly started to attack Blackburn box and play more progressive football with higher tempo. Not
of his crosses found the target but at least he tried to be direct.

Paterson-Blackburn.jpeg

Apart from his excellent performance in the second half against Rotherham Piroe has been
a disappointment so far. He doesn't attack crosses, he doesn't participate enough in the build-up play
(see on the pass map below his miserable contribution) and his shots are weak and easy to save.
It seems he is not with us at the moment and wants to leave.

Piroe-Blackburn.jpeg

Manning should be the first choice as LWB. Not all of his crosses are accurate, but some of them are excellent
and at least he is trying.

Manning-Blackburn.jpeg


 
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CroJack

Key Player
Grimes' progressive passing improved in the second half (you can see more direct forward passes in his passing map),
but my... he is so poor at crossing. None of his passes (crosses) into the Blackburn box were accurate..


Grimes-Blackburn.jpeg


Fulton was tasked with defensive duties and he often dropped down into the centre-backs role
when Darling, Wood and Naughton were in the more advanced areas on the pitch. He didn't contributed much with progressive forward
passing, he recycled the ball by passing it sideways and backwards. Fulton is better and more dangerous going forward than Grimes!
Martin should know that!

Fulton-Blackburn.jpeg

Latibeaudiere was criminally ineffective when it comes to forward passing in the first half, but he
improved in the second half when he put three excellent crosses in which our donkey strikers didn't attack properly.
Too many backward passes, but I like his physicality and cutting inside.



Lati-Blackburn.jpeg

See how Darling improved in the second half. Just like Grimes he made more direct forward passes. He
had a good game.

Darling-Blackburn.jpeg

People are wrong when they say Naughton is only passing the ball sideways and backwards.
He has an excellent range of passing and that's why I understand why Martin is using him as a pivot.

Naughton-Blackburn.jpeg
 
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CroJack

Key Player
Wood had one fantastic long pass in the first half, but in the second half none of his long passes were successful.
His task was feeding Latibeaudiere and he did it pretty well. Out-muscled for the Blackburn second goal
but apart from that had a good game.

Wood-Blackburn.jpeg


Can you believe it? Fisher didn't send a single long ball towards
Blackburn half for 90+ minutes.

Fisher-Blackburn.jpeg
 
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Yankee_Jack

Key Player
@CroJack …. Excellent analytics as always.

Manning has been strong, has earned his start as LWB.

Piroe has been playing like in a fog. He’s either not fit enough or disinterested. @crokack … your comment about him wanting to leave, or his agent wanting him to leave, is probably close to the truth.

Martin has had a taste of bad medicine these last three games. Let’s see what he does with selection for Sat.
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
Russell Martin has responded to the rumours that he is on the shortlist for WBA's vacant managerial post. He says that he's not interested as he now feels real progress is being made with us. He added that he and his family enjoy everything about the club and the city and are very happy being here.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
Why jump from potential promotion to a shit show. He’s tried our patience but finally the Martin Madness has crystallized into a semblance of sanity that is performing like a squad that belongs at the top of the table. Can money really make up for that … he played Prem football for a number of seasons - unless he was spending it like a drunken sailor surely he’s not needing money. And let’s face it … Gower v Brum’s arse-end … what’s the choice.
 

CroJack

Key Player
We have one of the most exciting squads in the Championship. A lot of promising young players who have not reached their potential yet. Benda, Cabango, Wood, Darling, Oli Cooper, Obafemi, Piroe, Lati, Congreve, Cullen, Cotterill, Brandon Cooper, Whittaker...
This team can only get better and better.
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
Martin is wondering out loud why no talks have been offered regarding renewal of his contract. He hints that this will impact on transfers in the close season. Could it be that the owners are dragging their feet because they are reluctant to offer a new contract? Wins against two weak teams in Cardiff and Bristol do not paper over the gaping cracks that have appeared during the season. My views are clear. For whatever reason, we've had to endure a pretty wretched season when we all had hopes of a realistic tilt at the top six places. We failed dismally and what's most frustrating is that the same mistakes are being made over and over and over. Martin has patently failed to deal with these shortcomings and it's a big part of his job to do so. I hope he continues to wait until such time he is replaced.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
Fisher is the one glaring problem at this point. A failure in acquisition, surely he demonstrated these weaknesses on copious videos for our recruitment team to review. I wonder if there is a profound difference of opinion between Martin and the recruitment team on the readiness of Sondergaard. Martin caustically commented on him after he had just arrived to the effect that the Club had not acquired a keeper .... thx for the vote of confidence boss.

BTW, do we even have a recruitment team?

As I have opined before, Martin is not going anywhere until season's end. If Toshack was performing an analysis during his visits then that's going to be completed, submitted and digested before any action is taken.

Our situation bears comparison to Potter at Chelsea, where there was an expectation of traction and some signs of forward progress even on the short term.

Over the past 5 seasons in the Championship we have:

ManagerWDLGoals+/-Points Rank
Potter18111765 : 6236510
Cooper18161262 : 539706
Cooper23111256 : 3917804
Martin16131758 : 68-106115
Martin13101654 : 59-54915

There are 7 games left on this season. Odds are this is going to be our weakest showing by far. These numbers just demonstrate what Cooper achieved and starkly what Martin has not. Our goal difference has improved but that's largely due to Benda being in goal versus Fisher. The one number that stands out is our goals against number in Cooper's second season - at 39.

Without a significant uptick in performance on an individual and team basis are we likely to offer a tangible promotion challenge next season? If not, then what are we doing? Are we likely to acquire players to boost the squad? Highly unlikely. We have not over two seasons demonstrated the ability to loan-in players to make a difference. Seems to me a stagnation point has been reached.
 

CroJack

Key Player
This is the final table with our managers' performances in the Championship. This season is almost identical to the Potter's. Good attacking wise but awful defensively.

managers.jpg
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
We've spent 2 seasons after Andy Pandy to get us back to Potter. Over last season, better by 4 GA. better by 10 GF - thanks largely to Cullen with 8 league goals, everyone else on par.

I presume the post-mortem on last season has commenced now with Coleman on board. Are we going to wait for a new DoF to chime in before taking action I wonder. There are many contracts with one year remaining. And we'll have B Cooper and Ogbeta returning from season long loans.

BTW, Andre Ayew is a free agent come the end of June. Worth a shout I reckon; he'd make a hell of a LB, LWB.
 
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ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
BTW, Andre Ayew is a free agent come the end of June. Worth a shout I reckon; he'd make a hell of a LB, LWB.
He'd be a very good Championship player I reckon and his leadership qualities and experience would be invaluable - particularly for the youngsters.
 

KVetch

Key Player
Andy Parslow our set piece coach is leaving after just a season. We scored 12 set play goals with 144 attempts but allowed 19 goals in only 152 attempts. Both scoring less than expected and conceding more than expected. They improved greatly from scoring just 2 goals on set pieces last season and we're worse defending them, conceding only 10 in 2021/22.
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
First it was Leicester and now Southampton have been strongly linked to Russell Martin. I wonder how interested he is in these rumours?
 
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