Let's Try to Compare Apples to Apples

[Yankee_Jack]

Martin's first season, even given the allowance of a transition year, is abysmal against the top 6 teams in the division when compared to his Swansea peers.

Looking back over the Championship seasons of Martinez, Sousa, Rogers, Potter and Cooper: Martin and his squad are without doubt a total shit show - an embarrassment at home and a disaster away.



Some important factors to consider when reviewing the above:

1. Martinez - despite finishing P8 with a squad recently promoted from L1, performed by far the best against the top 6 teams
2. Sousa - had a poor net -10 ... however, without a proper center forward and scoring a measly 40 goals with a seasonal GD of +3, Sousa finished P7 and missed getting into the playoffs by a point having drawn 0-0 at home to Doncaster on the last game of the season. What could he have achieved with Piroe or Ayew or Scotland. My all time most respected manager in terms of what he extracted from the resources he was given.
3. Cooper performed as poorly as Sousa in season 1 (-10), but managed to qualify for the playoffs scoring 62 goals (22 more than Sousa) with a GD = +9 with recognized forwards in Brewster and Ayew .... so actually performed worse than Sousa.
4. Potter faired barely one goal better than Sousa and Cooper 1 - a disappointing result considering the relegation squad he inherited.

This takes us back to Martin. FFS man, get a grip. At net -21, could Toshack have done any worse playing his U-23, I'd bet money against it. Net -21 is shambolic.

The squad is not technically deficient. It is at least on a par with Martinez' squad, probably better. But in terms of the three legged stool of organization, leadership and character, the squad is an absolute mare. Martin has to carry the responsibility for this and be held accountable ... and the brains' trust that has been selecting and acquiring these players.

Martin's team has a GD of -9, despite benefiting from a 20+ goal scorer in Piroe amply supported by Obafemi and Paterson.

Sousa and Rogers were savvy enough not to fuck with what they inherited: they played the hand they were dealt (Sousa miraculously so) and Rogers had the benefit of adding some players. In terms of style: Sousa and Rogers added and embellished. Cooper, for all of his inexperience, was conservative, pragmatic and prudent and yet can be considered to have under achieved. Potter was really in a no-mans' land, not the worst, on the one hand was salvaging a disaster from the previous season, on the other had a capable squad and could have done better.

 

[CroJack]

But none of the managers you mentioned

• played from the back all the time, not even Potter,
• kept a headless one-man-high-line-"defence" when in possession, and in the opposition half,
• played centre-backs as full-backs and pushed them so high, also centre-backs who lacked pace,
• played a dedicated full-back as a central centre-back,
• insisted on suicidal passes to the man-marked players in our own third,
• played so slow and boring passing football,
• gave away so many clear-cut chances.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

Exactly .... they knew what they were doing.

Martinez, Sousa, Rogers all played with a back 4 in typically a 4-2-3-1 setup. With two bona fide wingers. Cooper played 3+2 and achieved the league's best GA before abandoning it in search of goals. Potter was Potter.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

Bottom line - regardless of what system you are trying to play, nobody gets a pass at being reckless and irresponsible. Martin has to temper his delusion and system to the players on hand and the need to get results. If you look at the grid, every one of those managers (except Cooper 2) had a bad day of -4. But that was the exception.

Martin is not just offside, he's not even in the park. If Martin didn't have Piroe and Obafemi, and had to manage with Sousa's resources, we'd be relegated this season.

 

[Jackflash]

I was against his appointment from day one.
A manager who openly boasted of his possession football with MKD's but as Ivor commented, mostly played in his own half.
I think he was about 18th in league 1 when he left them for us,
They are now just 1 point away from automatic promotion, probably helped by his relieving them of their goalkeeper problem at our expense, who makes me shudder with his constant short pass clearances into a mix of players.
The club is now a shambles and will continue to be until he's gone, and that aint going to happen in the foreseeable future,
The man has no idea how to re adjust, when we are conceding and not scoring and even more so when we are scoring can't defend.
I also agree the top players we have will be forming a queue at the exit door.