Forrest V Swans

KVetch

Key Player
Three skills for a keeper:
Shot stopping - Fisher gets a B+
Distribution - a B
Command of the area - D-
I think that may be generous. He made two nice saves today but made a lot of mistakes too. Martin clearly believes in him. Brenda and Hamer will be gone next season, I want a better keeper. Do you think Fisher will be our starter next season?
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
Yes, because Martin is totally blinkered about players he likes. He's also the same about players he doesn't rate. He's a stubborn man that doesn't like change and sticks with what he knows. For me that's a dangerous weakness because he learns nothing new and limits his options.
 

Jackflash

Midfield General
Staff member
9 goals conceded in two games against a manager who failed to orchestrate little more than one goal occasionally when with us.
Now we have the agony of putting up with the spiel from the current one who on occasions can orchestrate goals but fails to stop the opposition doing exactly the same.
Seems we are in a no win situation.
 

KVetch

Key Player
Forest Bournemouth will play a make up game Tuesday night. Forest actually have a goal advantage. Should be a good match. Good for them but I hate seeing our old manager get promoted.
 

KVetch

Key Player
We should have conceded 15 goals in our last two games, and I am not kidding.
If only we had our defensive play from the last few seasons. Our scoring has improved dramatically largely with the help of Paterson Obafemi and Piroe
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
9 goals conceded in two games against a manager who failed to orchestrate little more than one goal occasionally when with us.
Now we have the agony of putting up with the spiel from the current one who on occasions can orchestrate goals but fails to stop the opposition doing exactly the same.
Seems we are in a no win situation.
So, does this tell us that the players now at Cooper's disposal are FAR superior to ours? Cooper had Ayew for his goals but we've got Piroe ably backed up by Oba. I repeat that Forest were a basket case near the foot of the table when Cooper went there whilst Martin took over a team that had made the play-offs twice in consecutive seasons. Look how both managers have progressed since then. It would cost too much to replace Martin but, if we could, I think I'd approve. That said, we always felt that this season would be one of transition so, in fairness, perhaps we should reserve judgement to see how we start next season. If it's similar to this season then we should get rid and look for better. And, let's face it, if we had decent owners who'd spend to back us, at least 3 or4 of the present team would be out on their arses.
 

CroJack

Key Player
Martin took over a team that had made the play-offs twice in consecutive seasons.
Disagree. Ayew, Roberts, Guehi, Rodon, Celina, Van der Hoorn, Lowe, Routledge, Gibbs-White, Gallagher, Hourihane, Woodman, Gyokeres, Palmer, Peterson, Brewster, Surridge, Kalulu, Wilmot, etc. were not in the team Martin took over.

So, does this tell us that the players now at Cooper's disposal are FAR superior to ours?
Some of them yes. But it's not about the players, it's about Martin's stupid style of play.

We don't defend, we invite opposition to press us, steal the ball, and create loads of high quality chances. We must be the easiest team to play against in the Championship. An amateur coach with a bunch of highly motivated players would beat us 9 out of 10 times by using five players to press us high, and five players to keep defensive line well organised.

Steve Cooper is a good motivator and man-manager, no doubt about it. But he didn't beat Martin because he is a football genius, he beat Martin because Martin is a donkey. The players love playing for Cooper, and rightly so: they sit back, and save their energy for quick transitions, and counter-attacks.

We should get rid of Martin because we stagnate under him. I am all for quick, passing, attacking football, but not for slow, boring, backward one. I care more for passing accuracy than possession percentage, and definitely I'd rather dominate opposition in pressing, chances, shots, crosses, corners, tackles, duels, dribbles etc. than possession.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
Mike Tyson: “everyone has a plan until they get hit”. Why have we turned into a boxer that bleeds like Cooper and has a chin of china. We have a plan, then we get hit and it all goes to shit. At least in boxing the ref can stop the bout out of pity or safety, but we have to stay in there for the 90 and take our beating.

Martin’s post match interview took a different tone. As usual he started of with the first half blarney, but then he turned. He could barely look into the camera but stated in essence that there are players that need to step it up or be left behind. Leadership and character …. He’s finally getting it … maybe. Maybe He’s been embarrassed enough to recognize the ugly. Martin also recognized we lack height in defense …. No shit, yet he plays Naughton as CCB and this vulnerability is isolated time and again by top forwards and managers.

There are players starting for us that Andy Pandy would rarely put on the bench never mind on the field: Manning, Lati, etc. And yet these two, for examples are all too often on the field. Andy Pandy got round to realizing Fulton’s value. Martin not so much. Bidwell was Andy Pandy’s go to LB/LWB. Bidwell was ignored by Martin then left.

I am disappointed with both ntcham and Paterson. Fair weather players and can’t be counted on in a shower never mind a storm.

Grimes … has to start every game, but he’s not a captain. He leads by example and does that very well, and he works hard. But, we need a captain that can stamp physical authority on the opposition, organize and make adjustments in real time on the field, and ream out team mates when they don’t step up to the task in the locker room, during a match and in practice. Grimes this is not. We need a captain that team mates fear and respect and so would not dare let their standards slip. We slip too often, too easily, when the fair weather turns foul.
 
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ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
It's taken me until now to get my head around the debacle Martin and his players turned in yesterday. He has since gone on record as being critical of his team's character (you don't SAY!!!!! Have you been reading this forum??); their presence; their athleticism; their physicality and, without actually using the word, their fitness. Look at these disgraceful stats and weep:

POSSESSION: 30-70 SHOTS: 27-12: OT: 17-3: CORNERS: 12-4 FOULS: 11-9 GOALS: 5-1

With just 30% of the ball they had 27 shots and SEVENTEEN on target, which is some sort of record in the ENTIRE football league!!!!!! In other words, we managed 0.17 shots per percentage possession whilst Forest had 0.9. This is absolutely appalling! They were 500% better than us at producing shots from their possession.

Cooper literally is laughing at us. He said he was quite happy to let us have the ball because he knew full well that we'd do fuck all with it and that he knew we conceded lots of goals when we lost the ball. Boy, wasn't he proved right but WE all knew that as well!! Our problem is that Martin and his coaches came here with a Division One mentality and Division One experience. Perhaps he didn't realise, but hopefully does now, is that the Championship has far more savvy players and far more savvy managers who know exactly how to counter his game plan, which he got away with at the lower level. Look what the pundits had to say:


Martin reckons we had a good first half but Steve Cooper had a totally different perspective saying Forest could have been 5-1 up and I agree with him:

Martin, his "coaching" staff and his team of wimps made us a laughing stock yesterday and they should be left in no doubt what we think about it. They shamed Swansea City football club AND WE NEVER WANT TO SEE THE LIKE AGAIN!!!
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
This has been building. When the going gets tough, the tough get going. Tough is a word that doesn’t exist around our Club. Whereas all those that are fighting for promotion have it woven into their DNA or hammered into them by their managers. Currently, we’re a pussy passing club and that’s as good as it gets.
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
It begs the question AGAIN: what the fcuk is our team doing with all that ball when opponents create FIVE times as many shots as we do with FAR LESS THAN HALF our possession? Laudrup's, Rodgers' and Martinez' teams would use it to A) create MORE chances and B) tire out the other team. When Martin's lot do it, it's the other team that makes the most chances and it's US that seemingly gets tired. We are beating ourselves!!

Any bunch of idiots with basic skills, can pass the ball to each other in their own half building impressive possession rates but coming nowhere near to hurting their opponents who, as Cooper said, are quite happy to watch it all before pouncing on an inevitable mistake and breaking away to score.

You have been sussed out BIG TIME, Mr Martin, as have your very limited players, who have neither the skills, the fitness levels or the character to deliver what you want. Players such as Piroe, Obafemi, along with possibly the likes of Downes and Grimes, will want out at the end of this season. If we can all see what's going wrong, they most certainly would as well and will prefer to play under a manager who can get results.

As for the stinking parasites who infest our club, my one consolation is that the lower we drop, the more their investment depreciates. Good enough for them.
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
Our lot phoned it in didn't they? Just as I feared. Forest attacked in numbers and defended in numbers, which requires athleticism, stamina, pace and strength all of which our bunch of wimps lacked. And they've lacked it all season. Are they aware that football is a contact sport that requires players to run, fight for the ball and keep doing it for 90 minutes? Are they aware that weaving pretty patterns in training is all well and good but, that in a match situation, opposing players are not going to allow it?

Martin's ideas are fine but, either he's not coaching them well enough, or his players are nowhere good enough to implement them. I suspect that it's a combination of the two factors. Thank God we won't go up with this pack of donkeys this season because I reckon we'd have shipped the first ever double figure defeat in Premier League history....... and it might not have been just the one. We'd have become a laughing stock in the footballing world - an object of pity.

And, unless we get rid of half the team and replace them with proper professionals, we won't even get a sniff of the Premier League next season.
 
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