Corona virus

CroJack

Key Player
It's spreading in Europe, and it's out of control.

Ordinary flu mortality rate is 0.2 %. Corona virus mortality rate is 9%.

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Coronavirus Cases: Statistics and Charts - Worldometer

The authorities keep telling us not to panic, they keep telling us that the corona virus is just another flu, but at the same time the whole regions in Italy are shut down and surrounded by the police and military forces. The authorities are panicking, and at the same time they are telling us not to panic? Well, panic in such situations could be a good thing, and it might help to stop spreading the killer virus. People are more cautious.
 

The Blobster

Prediction Champ
People are more cautious?

Unlike those who were sent back to Britain before their test results were known and have now been found to be infected !
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
This will be a worldwide pandemic of catastrophic proportions. Apparently the bug is already mutating so that any 'cure' could be outdated before it even becomes available. Personally I'm very worried. When I had my cancer surgery they were obliged to remove most of my lymph nodes meaning I now have a VERY fragile immune system that is easily overcome even by the mildest of bugs.

After my operation one of the first things my consultant told me was that, whenever possible, to avoid coming into contact with anyone who had a virus no matter how mild. I was also warned against getting wet as it could easily turn into pneumonia. He wasn't kidding!! Often when I come home from shopping, I feel really ill and it lasts for several days. Obviously someone had passed their bug to me and my immune system could barely deal with it. A couple of years ago, I came back from having a scan at Carmarthen hospital and was very, very ill for about four weeks. I could scarcely eat and lost about a stone and a half in weight. It didn't help living alone as I had to soldier on and do the best I could for myself. Which wasn't much! :sick:

It's now got to the stage where I absolutely have to steer clear of anyone I know who has a cold. On a couple of occasions I've even had to duck out of a dinner invitation from @Ladygargar which is an indication of how seriously I have to take it because that lady is an absolutely superb cook and I just love sitting at her table with her family to tuck in. :)

Same thing with footy. If there's the slightest risk of rain I don't even think about going, as getting wet is not an option. Got to the stage now where I rarely go as I've got out of the habit because it rains so much here. :( But at least I'm still here and hoping that this fcuking snake flu doesn't come anywhere near me.
 

CroJack

Key Player
This thing is getting more serious now.

Let's crunch some numbers.

Italy

2036 infected
52 died
149 recovered
908 hospitalised
166 in intensive care units

Mortality rate in Italy

2.55 % of all infected
25.8 % of the cases which had an outcome (either recovered or died)

Intensive care rate (patients in critical condition)

8.1 % of all infected


A comparison

Last year there were 29.000.000 Americans infected with seasonal flu. 16.000 died. That's 0.055 %. So far corona virus mortality rate in Italy is 2.55 %, and that's a very low number. Why? Because Italy still have enough ICU (intensive care units), the number of infected is still very low per capita. But what if it becomes an epidemic with hundreds of thousands infected? The mortality rate will rise dramatically due to shortages of ICU and medical staff. Some Western countries are already talking about triages. What does "triage" means? Simply put, the medical staff will have to decide who will live and who wil die. They will simply prioritise young and wealthy people. Older and sick can f*** off.
 

CroJack

Key Player
79 deaths in Italy. That's 3.88 % mortality rate of all infected. 36.2 % mortality rate for cases that had an outcome. This virus is not a joke and our governments are still "following and observing the situation."

Observing? Do something ffs.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
I saw a diagram a few days back of the propagation of flu versus C-19. A person infected with flu typically infects 2 others. A C-19 infected person can infect significantly more .... as in 8 or more other people. Both are geometric progressions, but this means that C-19 is considerably worse.

For example, without any barriers to propagation, using these infection rates, it would take 33 cycles of infection for flu to infect 5 billion people.
It would take 11 cycles for C-19 to infect the same number of people with an 8-fold transmission. In other words, once this thing sets in it's off to the races unless it encounters a barrier to propagation. What are those? It has been reported that apparently the very young, whose immune systems are fully charged and operational fighting off a trove of other insults, do not succumb to the infection. If they exist, the naturally immune. And, there's voluntary or forced individual or community isolation. Testing is a post facto exercise: it determines the treatment protocol, but does nothing to slow propagation .... by the time an individual is sick enough to seek treatment and thereby get tested, there's already been contact with others and possible transmission.

My take is that unless you're living in a glass bubble or a hermit, you're going to get this much sooner than later. So the big question is: what can you do to minimize at the first appearance of any symptom.

If you're living in a dense urban center where mass transit is the main mode of transportation ... you're fucked. If you have to go to work, you're susceptible to coming into contact with someone who is likely carrying the infection ... the bigger, denser the work place, the greater the odds of contact, and the harder it is to avoid. Other than isolation there's no natural way for a normal person with a normal life style to avoid contact without taking on some serious hygiene protocols and being religious about it. I am fortunate in that I work from home, my primary level of contact is with a very, very small group of people all of whom I know; but, secondarily, I "come" into contact with the people they have been in contact with. With flu, you can tap dance around this. With C-19, I don't see how this works.

With global supply chains the way they are, we are going to slide into a supply-side driven recession. Central banks can do nothing about this. You can't sell what you don't have in stock regardless of the demand or the Central Bank stimulus. The major sea ports on the USA west coast are already showing marked down turn in traffic ... any component sourced from China is going to have scarcity. Missing components in a just-in-time inventory flow will shut down domestic production, cause work force furloughs, which is going to induce demand-side recession forces.

Another question is what is the virus' mutation rate. Each year, yet another flu variant appears, so it's an ever present but relatively low grade problem. It is a problem that virologists can keep up with and get their arms around. The flu vaccine can be effective but doesn't mean you will stay clear of infection of a new strain. If this C-19 similarly mutates, then every year we could have a new strain of virus impervious to vaccination. The southern hemisphere is about to enter autumn and winter months when seasonal viruses like the flu wax. If seasonality is a factor., these countries ... say South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Chile and Argentina are going to be the leading indicators of impact.
 

CroJack

Key Player
"The British health secretary told MPs that reacting too early or over-reacting carries its own risk, saying that the government would, therefore, seek to minimise social disruption."

In 1918, when Spanish flu killed 50.000.000 people, some peasants were more clever than our politicians today. They barricaded their villages for months, not allowing anyone to enter. And they didn't get infected. They didn't try to minimise social disruption, they distrupted it.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
Britain is the first and proud Idiocracy. When there's no weetabix on the supermarket shelf, I don't see how you can avoid social disruption. When there are no cigarettes, there's going to be social disruption. When the pub runs dry, there's going to be social disruption. When the local hooker, doesn't show up for work, there's going to be social disruption ... especially among the upper classes.

Isolation is the only sure way to avoid infection. True for real viruses. True for computer viruses. True for most other things we wish not to catch.
 

CroJack

Key Player
Dr. John Campbell is damn right when he says that our governments are being reactive instead of pro-active.

 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
C-19 is like a blast. It could have been contained at the point of detonation. But at this point every authority is chasing the shock wave. It's not going to be caught until it slows. It's just going to have dissipate of its own accord.
 

CroJack

Key Player
C-19 is like a blast. It could have been contained at the point of detonation. But at this point every authority is chasing the shock wave. It's not going to be caught until it slows. It's just going to have dissipate of its own accord.
Close all borders for three months. The economy will take a hit and a lot of people will be annoyed, but that's nothing compared to millions of people dying from the virus, disrupted chains of production and distribution, and army in the streets in case of a huge outbreak.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
Close all borders for 3 months .... Not really possible. Citizens out of the country may have to return and must be allowed in ... what then ... quarantine.
 

CroJack

Key Player
Close all borders for 3 months .... Not really possible. Citizens out of the country may have to return and must be allowed in ... what then ... quarantine.
Give the citizens 10 days to return, and then close the borders. Quarantine, of course. At least a month.

Here in Denmark we still have people who travel to North Italy on ski holidays. They simply don't care. If they don't care about us why on earth should we care about them?

You know what are the stupid European goverments doing? They are advising against all travel to the regions hit by the corona virus outbreak. If you don't listen to their advice, no problem, come home and infect millions of people.

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Behindthegoal

Key Player
It's beginning to seem like those disaster movies where a slip by a scientist wipes out 95% of the population.
But this is "only" a correction which most will survive.
Meantime, we've pushed to the back the event which WILL wipe out the entire human race. Global warming.
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
Cannot deny citizens re-entry
Agreed but if they insist on travelling then they must expect to be quarantined on their return. I don't see that the rest of us should be put at risk for the few that won't/can't follow advice. As someone with a highly compromised immune system, it could prove a death sentence for me, quite literally, should I ever be exposed to it.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
@ivoralljack ... it’s too late. Once the bug lands, it propagates. The transmission rate if true all but guarantees it.

I’ve checked .... there are no N95 respiratory masks to be had anywhere over here. This is something I expect to catch. I’m trying to determine what is my best way to minimize the impact and accelerate recovery. I am wondering whether my annual flu shot has given my immune system a jolt that will somehow work in my favor.

The one reported case in Swansea already suggests that there many more undetected and n-fold more points of contact from those. Over here cases are popping up in neighboring states. Nothing where I live yet, but with the flow of people In the north east corridor it’s just a matter of time.

Look on the bright side. The seniors amongst us grew up in times with limited vaccines, and our parents and grandparents most certainly had even fewer or none at all. There was risk everywhere. Measles! You caught it, like everybody else, dealt with it and moved on. We were children at the time, an advantage I suppose, but we emerged with a natural immunity thereafter. This is going to be something similar, but those with compromise are going to be challenged for sure.

Somebody I know wryly posted in Facebook a few days ago .... “when I was a kid, I died, and my father told me to walk it off.”
 
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