Boro Away

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
There’s a schism within the club. Club, Martin and squad are each in a different place.

There’s no leadership. Grimes has to lose the captaincy … he’s a lead by example type and I’m seeing apathy. Allen is showing him up. Fulton has to start instead of Grimes; at least Fulton will standup and get tough with a nice one touch and the ability to score in the box.

Cooper is a grafter, bully with skill … he has to start.

Congreve was punished for others’ laziness. Sorinola offered little in comparison.


Cullen … surely he now has to start over obafemi. Piroe … either play him #9 or don’t play him. He’s a square peg in a round hole and doesn’t do enough in the #8 role.

Ntcham has been getting starts but not pulling the strings in the final third and not getting any second balls.

Fisher … saying his name is enough.
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
Read an article by Troy Deeney today when he accused the Arsenal team of five years ago of lacking cojones. He explains:

"What I was trying to get at was that, during Arsene Wenger's latter years, when you played for a Premier League club outside the 'elite', you felt as though you had a serious chance against Arsenal.

They would always try and pass it out from the back and you knew you could press them high and get some success. They didn't have enough of an 'out ball', they didn't have a lot of genuine ball carriers, they didn't have a truly dominant centre-half and they were not great at defending set-pieces. It was all those aspects......... that made Arsenal beatable."


Any of that sound familiar? Any of that LOOK familiar? Martin is rooted in football that was in vogue years ago. Of course passing and possession are still important attributes to have today but they have to be mixed in with other things that give you more directness and more flexibility.

Our players do not have the quality to rely on passing and possession alone and it doesn't help when they are repeatedly played out of position either. Martinball worked in Division One because other teams and managers didn't have the quality and knowledge to deal with it. But they do in the Championship. And it took Martin's replacement to get the team to kick on to a play-off final when he fine-tuned martinball to be quicker and more direct.

Has this not dawned on his bosses, and peers, at the Liberty yet? Well they had better start seeing the light soon else Martin will be taking us back whence he came to Division One.
 

CroJack

Key Player
Yeah, enough is enough.

We are virtually rock bottom in the league table (Huddersfield have 1 and Coventry 3 games in hand) and we have the worst goal score of -5 in six games. We have scored 5 and conceded 10. And we have been extremely poor in 3 out of 6 games we have played.

It's time to park the bus and start playing counter-attacking football. We must do to our opponents what they have been doing to us since August 2021 - wait for their mistake and hit them on counter. These players can't play possession based football and Martin is too stubborn to tweak the system and bench the players who underperform.
 

Yankee_Jack

Key Player
Passing is fine. Passing without tempo, without movement, without others wanting the ball, without others making themselves available ... is best described as a bad practice session, not fit for purpose in a match. If we play the way we practice, then practice must be pedestrian at best. The "other" component of passing, the receiver's side of the equation is where all the work is done ... but there's minimal effort. Allen stands out because he's just playing by rote and naturally shows and receives ... classic Swanselona ... and it's this comparison that starkly reveals the statuesque quality of all the others.

Clearly, we have defenders and players that can play defensive roles ... to some degree ... but offensively we have nothing of any value and offer little to breakdown even the most mediocre Championship defenses. For example, we have players playing wide, but have no concept of wing play. They prefer to pass back than attack a defender. It's all retrograde and ill-fitting, and ill-designed.

The Club are not going to pull the trigger on this until it's beyond being salvaged for this season. And, by salvaged I mean avoid relegation.
 

jackodiamonds

Set-Piece Specialist
Staff member
My worry with Martin's tenure is the owners will have a touch of sunken cost fallacy - they've backed Martin so far by letting him bring in Darling, Fisher and Sorinola, and by letting him get rid of others either by permanent transfer, loan, or regular benching (Bidwell, Whittaker, Joseph, Dhanda, Benda, Fulton). So maybe they feel they now have to see it through, "trust the process", and so on to justify such sacrifices. Also, it will probably be too expensive to fire and rehire given the owners have made it clear they're not spending any more money.

I appreciate the players that Martin has ostracised aren't world-beaters, but Benda is better than Fisher, Bidwell is better than Sorinola, and Dhanda at least knows how to dribble past opponents, shoot, and play through balls even if he does lose the ball half the time in trying. But at least he tried.

And despite being given three of his former players, Martin is still unhappy the owners won't sign more. Now, I'm not defending the owners - they should be doing a lot more - but Martin has gotten as much or more out of them than most (I'm guessing mostly because his players came from the lower leagues and so were relatively cheap, and one is a loan anyway). Does he really think that if he was given all the players he wanted (which seems like the entire 20-21 MK Dons side from the outside), his tactics would suddenly click and revolutionise the game? He has better players in this squad now than he had at MK Dons and he can't get a tune out of them.

I've said before - for me, a real manager is one who can come into a club and get the best out of the existing playing staff. Anyone can succeed given perfect conditions (i.e. their ideal hand-picked first XI). A good manager should have enough tactical understanding to choose a system based on his players, and be a good enough motivator to make those players play for him. One skill or the other isn't really enough. At this point Martin seems to have neither.
 

The Blobster

Prediction Champ
As I suspected he was pleased with their efforts today.
He must watch a different game to what commentators and journalists watch , does he not see that our turgid , walking pace football is not going to worry any defence , that our lazy lackadaisical pasing at the back and in midfield and lack of forward momentum and movement is killing us ?
Ffs play a system whereby you have round pegs in round holes , not a centre half as a wing back (Latibeaudiere) a full back as a centre back ( naughton) Piroe as a number 8 instead of a number 9 , no pace on the flanks coupled with no legs to get back to defend breakaway, garbage substitutions, lack of accurate crosses , lack of shots on target , lack of effective through balls , lack of set piece ability at both ends of the pitch and lack of game management.

No more excuses please Mr Martin, either do your job properly or FUCK OFF ASAP , AND TAKE YOUR CRAP SYSTEM WITH YOU .
 
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CroJack

Key Player
I've said before - for me, a real manager is one who can come into a club and get the best out of the existing playing staff. Anyone can succeed given perfect conditions (i.e. their ideal hand-picked first XI). A good manager should have enough tactical understanding to choose a system based on his players, and be a good enough motivator to make those players play for him. One skill or the other isn't really enough. At this point Martin seems to have neither.
It's not even necessary to choose a system based on the players if you, as a manager, respect and request four nonnegotiables - pace, running, moving and fighting. No matter what style of football you play if you don't have pace and if you are not running, moving and fighting, you won't be able to succeed. Everything else, like possession %, passing accuracy %, technique, skills, etc. is the icing on the cake. A slow, lazy, smart football will always be beaten by football played with more pace, running, moving and fighting.

And that's what is wrong with Martin's ball. We lack pace, and we don't run, move and fight enough. Martin obviously believes that by passing the ball slowly around you can outsmart and tire out your opponents. He obviously believes that it is possible to play 90 minutes of football without making mistakes. That's why in his post-match interview he moans about a couple of mistakes that (again) lost us the game. He is wrong. The mistakes didn't lose us the game. Even for the best teams in the world it's impossible to play 90 minutes of football without making any mistakes. It's not about not making mistakes, it's about having a plan what to do when the inevitable mistakes happen. And this is where Martin has failed as Swansea manager. He doesn't have such plan.

First of all, you should never play high defensive line with slow defenders and midfielders. You must have players who are at least as quick as the opposition attackers. Ideally quicker. Otherwise playing high defensive line is suicidal. Not only that you can't catch opposition attackers when they counter-attack, you can't even block crosses and shots because you are to slow to react and follow the move of your opponent. Ten conceded goals in six games prove my point. We simply gift high quality chances and easy goals to opposition by not being able to react quickly enough. So, if you want to play high defensive line then you have to put there the quickest players you have. In our case Obafemi, Sorinola and Manning as the back three. Or buy defenders who have pace. And instead of buying defenders who have a lot of pace Martin has bought players who are good at passing the ball. The trouble is you can teach a player how to pass the ball but you can't teach him pace. Either you have it, or you don't.
And if you don't want to play Obafemi, Sorinola and Manning as the back three then don't play high defensive line.

Second, Martin doesn't intervene when the players a) don't run and move enough, and b) don't pass the ball quickly enough. There is a reason why we didn't create many chances against Blackburn and Luton, and the reason is simply that our players didn't run enough and didn't move into the empty spaces when they could. Not only that Martin doesn't intervene when something like this happens, he allows this to happen game after game.

Third, you can't always pass the ball from the back. A simple rule should be this: play from the back if you have enough space to do that, and if not, then hoof it. By playing the ball from the back when we are under pressure we give the opposition a clear psychological advantage - they are bullying us and at the same time forcing us to be scared of passing the ball from the back. Every psychologist will tell you when you are afraid of making mistakes you'll make them.

Fourth, Martin doesn't have a clue why we are impotent up front. In most cases by playing possession football you force opposition to park the bus and you don't have much space to operate in and around opposition box. Martin is trying to solve this problem by instructing the players to pass the ball backwards in order to drag opposition attackers into our half and then find the empty pockets of spaces to penetrate opposition midfield and defence. But our opponents don't care, and they sit happily back in their own half waiting for our mistakes, which means we don't create much when we meet teams who park the bus. To create something against them you have to have tall players up front who are good in the air. Do we have such players in our squad? Only Fulton, Piroe and Ntcham have height to attack crosses. Others are more less useless unless we play Wood and Darling up front as strikers. The trouble is when we put crosses into opposition box the only players there to attack crooses are Obafemi & Sorinola on one side, and Obafemi & Manning on the other. Are they tall? No. Have any of them scored from a header yet? I can't remember. I remember that Piroe scored one goal from a header last season and that's it. And when we know that ALL the goals we have scored this season and most of the goals we scored last season are scored through the middle, so why on earth are we constantly trying to attack down the flanks when we almost never commit our tallest players up front to attack crosses?
Most teams counter possession based football by parking the bus and counter-attacking (that's what Blackburn did), but some of them press relentlessly all over the pitch and counter-attack. Luton for example. Martin doesn't have solution for high pressing teams either.
 
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Yankee_Jack

Key Player
Have the players lost the plot or lost interest or just terribly confused?

ls KOL keeping notes so that when he steps into the breach he knows what he’s got to change

Will Leicester hurry up and fire Brendan and hire Martin …. Please FFS if there is a god.

is Fisher betting against us on the side?

Our players run like they’ve only got one pair of boots to last the entire season and they’re trying desperately not to wear out the soles.

Why does Danny Graham on drugs look more effective than Piroe?

Sick Note Beattie had more shots on goal in one game than Piroe and Obafemi in the entire season so far.

At least Pintado kicked Savage. What’s Obafemi done this season?
 

lliwt yr lavac

Key Player
Some great posts on here. We all know the flaws in Martin’s system and that it’s not working, but unfortunately he’s not going anywhere.
Even though he said there’s no more signings, one has arrived on loan today, 20 year old midfielder Luke Cundle from Wolves. Just when we need experienced players he brings in another rookie.
 
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