Yankee_Jack
Key Player
And thanks to Lowe .... Cabango is now crocked until the start of next season.
AN EVENING AT HOME WITH BOURNMUFF
- Thread starter The Blobster
- Start date
CroJack
Key Player
We are not ready.
1. Fulham didn't have to grind out results. Neither did Leeds when they were promoted.
2. We all knew that this would be a transitional season with a new style of play. When Graham Potter, who was more experienced than Martin when he took over, was at the Liberty, we also finished out of the play-off places.
3. We are on a 9 matches unbeaten run, so complaining about Reading and Bournemouth games is a bit strange. Drawing against teams where one of them is fighting against relegation and another one for automatic promotion is not a big surprise.
4. Bournemouth match was irrelevant, so we didn't need to grind out result.
We are more a winning than a losing team. W16 D13 L15. We are right now a mid-table team in transition.
We are neither a strong nor a weak team. We have lost 12 points from a winning position, and won 10 points from a losing position.
Two times this season we have lost a game when we scored first. Preston away (lost 3:1) and Reading at home (lost 3:2).
Tree times this season we have drawn a game when we scored first. Blackpool 1:1, Reading 4:4 and Bournemouth 3:3.
On the other hand:
We have won two games from a losing position. West Brom 2:1, and Peterborough 3:2.
We have drawn four games from a losing position. Luton 3:3 after being 3 goals down, and Huddersfield, Barnsley and Middlesbrough all 1:1.
Going 3 goals up against Bournemouth IS entertaining and conceding 3 goals IS NOT a capitulation against a team who trashed us in the reverse fixture 4:0. You expect too much from this Swansea team and this Swansea manager.
Not true. We didn't pissed away superior positions in Barnsley and Middlesbrough games. We were actually behind in both games, and, to quote Rodgers, we showed a great character to fight back and earn a draw.
Had we beaten Reading and Bournemouth we would have 65 points now, which wouldn't put us in a "challenging position for the play-offs" with 4 points behind Sheffield United, who have much better goal score, and two games left.
It's always entertaining to see our players be 3 goals up and play good football. Conceding 3 goals after being 3 goals up is still entertaining, but also disappointing
.
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
Whether we are ready for Prem football or not .... it's still my preference, and an economic necessity.
As a rule we have played ponderously boring football and delivered below our expectation ... at least mine.
And it's a matter of perspective and standards as to whether we drive to be better or are more satisfied with the status quo and patting ourselves on the back for not losing to Bournemouth etc. Against Barnsley we pissed away an opportunity to earn 3 points - a bottom club FFS.
4 matches ago - the playoffs were within our grasp. Now they are not. We let opportunity slip away. It could/would have been a tall order, requiring an aspiration and achievement of excellence ... but what else are they paid to do. For sure, brain surgeons aspire and achieve excellence every day otherwise patients die or are rendered vegetables. Andy Pandy managed to make the playoffs the past two seasons ... what's Martin's excuse. Sousa took a team to the brink of the playoffs on the very last touch of the season without a #9 and a back stabber on board ... and Sousa took a rash of shit every single week for the football that we played, but he squeezed every last drop of juice out of the squad that he had.
What football has taught us over decades and decades of competition at all levels is that in any given match history is often irrelevant. What matters is the 11 v 11 players on the field that day, what they want, what they do, how they do it. Each of the last 4 matches should have been treated as a cup final, not a casual saunter to the end of the season. It's irrelevant how supposedly "brilliant" we were for 50+ minutes when all hell broke loose thereafter. When it mattered most ... it didn't happen. This is the story that we end our season with ... when it mattered most, it didn't happen. A story that appeared time and again throughout the season. When it mattered most ... when we had opportunity to make a difference ... when we should have shown up and been dominant against a weaker team ... it didn't happen.
I had a conversation with an agent of one of our player's last December. The theme of one part of that conversation was that too many players are too satisfied where they are ... where we are ... and are not driven to be better and play at a higher level. They were satisfied. I wonder where we'd have been 11 years ago if the likes of Mark Gower or Alan Tate had thought like that ... two players who could certainly look in the mirror and be pragmatic enough to realize that perhaps they couldn't cut it a higher level and would be relegated to bench warmers or stand sitters and so this is good enough. But that didn't happen did it. Think of Gower, Tate, Prately, et al ... did they mail it in. Or last two seasons when Ayew kept working his rear end off game after game.
When you lose commanding positions in matches or fail to harvest maximum points from inferior teams, without the handicap of a red card, it's not about technical inferiority, it's about a lack of leadership and character. This makes us a weak team. Strong teams don't do that. Strong teams keep it tight and eek out that 1-0 win when they have an off day, or an off 30 minutes, or they get handicapped by a red card. Remember the Leeds match at home under Martinez around Christmas in 2007-08 ... it was a top of the table clash. We were leading the league by a number of points, Leeds were hot on our heals - they were a force (under the handicap of a 15 point deduction from the prior season). We had Bodde sent off late in the first half. We scored the winner after the red card and won 3-2. This is character. This is organization. This is making it happen. (BBC SPORT | Football | League One | Swansea 3-2 Leeds). Have we so easily forgotten what it's all about.
As a rule we have played ponderously boring football and delivered below our expectation ... at least mine.
And it's a matter of perspective and standards as to whether we drive to be better or are more satisfied with the status quo and patting ourselves on the back for not losing to Bournemouth etc. Against Barnsley we pissed away an opportunity to earn 3 points - a bottom club FFS.
4 matches ago - the playoffs were within our grasp. Now they are not. We let opportunity slip away. It could/would have been a tall order, requiring an aspiration and achievement of excellence ... but what else are they paid to do. For sure, brain surgeons aspire and achieve excellence every day otherwise patients die or are rendered vegetables. Andy Pandy managed to make the playoffs the past two seasons ... what's Martin's excuse. Sousa took a team to the brink of the playoffs on the very last touch of the season without a #9 and a back stabber on board ... and Sousa took a rash of shit every single week for the football that we played, but he squeezed every last drop of juice out of the squad that he had.
What football has taught us over decades and decades of competition at all levels is that in any given match history is often irrelevant. What matters is the 11 v 11 players on the field that day, what they want, what they do, how they do it. Each of the last 4 matches should have been treated as a cup final, not a casual saunter to the end of the season. It's irrelevant how supposedly "brilliant" we were for 50+ minutes when all hell broke loose thereafter. When it mattered most ... it didn't happen. This is the story that we end our season with ... when it mattered most, it didn't happen. A story that appeared time and again throughout the season. When it mattered most ... when we had opportunity to make a difference ... when we should have shown up and been dominant against a weaker team ... it didn't happen.
I had a conversation with an agent of one of our player's last December. The theme of one part of that conversation was that too many players are too satisfied where they are ... where we are ... and are not driven to be better and play at a higher level. They were satisfied. I wonder where we'd have been 11 years ago if the likes of Mark Gower or Alan Tate had thought like that ... two players who could certainly look in the mirror and be pragmatic enough to realize that perhaps they couldn't cut it a higher level and would be relegated to bench warmers or stand sitters and so this is good enough. But that didn't happen did it. Think of Gower, Tate, Prately, et al ... did they mail it in. Or last two seasons when Ayew kept working his rear end off game after game.
When you lose commanding positions in matches or fail to harvest maximum points from inferior teams, without the handicap of a red card, it's not about technical inferiority, it's about a lack of leadership and character. This makes us a weak team. Strong teams don't do that. Strong teams keep it tight and eek out that 1-0 win when they have an off day, or an off 30 minutes, or they get handicapped by a red card. Remember the Leeds match at home under Martinez around Christmas in 2007-08 ... it was a top of the table clash. We were leading the league by a number of points, Leeds were hot on our heals - they were a force (under the handicap of a 15 point deduction from the prior season). We had Bodde sent off late in the first half. We scored the winner after the red card and won 3-2. This is character. This is organization. This is making it happen. (BBC SPORT | Football | League One | Swansea 3-2 Leeds). Have we so easily forgotten what it's all about.
Great debate, guys, which I have really enjoyed reading. 
Both of you have made very valid points, so I suppose it depends on what charges your particular batteries. I'm going to fence sit here but I'm on record about doubting the character of the team as a whole....... and I stand by that. However, we all knew, and accepted that this season would be transitional. Should next season be more of the same then that will give us our answer in that we failed to learn from the mistakes we've made in this one. And there's no doubt in my mind that we threw away an outside chance of the play-offs for God knows what reason. But I do agree that had we won promotion this season we'd have been nothing more than cannon fodder and would have come straight back down.
Thing is, can Martin take this team (hopefully with some quality additions) to a promotion spot with this season's disappointments having been a valuable learning curve? It remains to be seen but we need the owners to back us so we can get some new blood in to make the difference.
Both of you have made very valid points, so I suppose it depends on what charges your particular batteries. I'm going to fence sit here but I'm on record about doubting the character of the team as a whole....... and I stand by that. However, we all knew, and accepted that this season would be transitional. Should next season be more of the same then that will give us our answer in that we failed to learn from the mistakes we've made in this one. And there's no doubt in my mind that we threw away an outside chance of the play-offs for God knows what reason. But I do agree that had we won promotion this season we'd have been nothing more than cannon fodder and would have come straight back down.Thing is, can Martin take this team (hopefully with some quality additions) to a promotion spot with this season's disappointments having been a valuable learning curve? It remains to be seen but we need the owners to back us so we can get some new blood in to make the difference.
CroJack
Key Player
We missed our chance to reach play-off places earlier this season. In November, December, January and February we lost to Reading, Forest and Luton at home, and to Hull and Middlesbrough away. 1W 2D 5L.
Also, in September and November we drew to Hull, Millwall, and Blackpool at home.
I repeat, in the last 9 games we have earned 17 points, which is excellent. Actually, that's 87 points over the course of a season, which again means automatic promotion places. I agree, we should have been able to beat Barnsley and Reading, but the extra 4 points wouldn't have changed much.
We should have won 8 out of our last 9 games to have a chance of reaching play-off places. That's unrealistic, imho.
Also, in September and November we drew to Hull, Millwall, and Blackpool at home.
I repeat, in the last 9 games we have earned 17 points, which is excellent. Actually, that's 87 points over the course of a season, which again means automatic promotion places. I agree, we should have been able to beat Barnsley and Reading, but the extra 4 points wouldn't have changed much.
We should have won 8 out of our last 9 games to have a chance of reaching play-off places. That's unrealistic, imho.
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
A tall order, but not unrealistic ... top teams find a way to make things happen when opportunity exists. Unrealistic was going to Reading at the end of last season expecting to get into the playoffs ... but we made things happen on our end and fortune favored us.
This season will only be one of transition IF we can keep our big-hitters. If we sell them then we will have ANOTHER season of transition as the new players will have to bed in. If they aren't as good as those leaving, which would be highly likely, we'll be starting from scratch with an inferior team. If we are going to stand a realistic chance of promotion we, now more than ever, will need the owners to not only refrain from selling our best players but actually buy a couple more to add to our quality. Can anyone realistically see this happening? I can't! A parasite is a parasite is a parasite.
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
Somebody mentioned in another thread a week or so back that Rodon would be available on a loan next season. His contract at Spurs is good through 2025. If he is offered on loan then that would be a terrific addition. For Wales, Rodon has to play regularly, wherever that might be. It might as well be for us as anybody else. He (Wales) cannot really afford for him to be in and out at a another Prem club.
CroJack
Key Player
Agreed.
Piroe, Obafemi, Grimes and Downes. We should also try to sign Wolf (on loan) and Christie. With Naughton, Cabango, Patterson, Ntcham, Fulton, Lati and Manning that's almost an ok squad.
Then we have two Coopers, Dan Williams, Whittaker, Cullen and Garrick.
What we really need is a goalkeeper we can trust.