Swans vs Stoke

Borini

Key Player
#61
We were played off the park by the team who are bottom and have not won a game this year.
Or I could say Joe Allen ........ What a player.
Roberts and Dhanda were rubbish. Woodman needs to look where he is lumping the ball to. Too many passes played without looking.... Borja put in a shift though. He gets 7 out of 10. The rest get a solid 3 or 4.
Utter blooming rubbish....
 
#62
Now does any one believe me when I say we will be lucky to finish 10th and should not be any where near the top.
We still have a chance if Cooper changes what it needs to be changed. We have players, but he doesn't use them. The goal we scored against Stoke is the prime example how we should be playing quick transitions. Dhanda has got pace, but who else does? Celina, when he is not too tired, and Roberts. Surridge, Garrick, Dyer and John all have pace, but they are not playing.

Our problem is also structural. We play more Monk's than Potter's ball. We play sporadically pass & move football. We are labouring instead of enjoying our football. And, of course, we can't dominate games if we give the ball to opposition all the time. Swans are supposed to be good with the ball.
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
#63
J'Accuse! This was the title of an open letter penned in 1898 by the famous writer Emile Zola lambasting the French Government for their unjust conduct in the case of Alfred Dreyfus. It has since become a generic expression of outrage and accusation against someone powerful but I make no apologies for redirecting it against Steve Cooper and his team in the context of what was surely one of our most shameful performances in recent memory.

I had a last minute invitation to the game from @Ladygargar (thank you most sincerely) and attended with her and her daughter Eleanor. I pride myself on the fact that, because I was in their company, not one expletive escaped my lips, nor did I invade the pitch, which I promise you I so badly wanted to do, just to tell the whole fcuking lot of them what I thought of that pig's guts of a non-performance.

To say it was an insult to our loyal fanbase would be the understatement of the year. Shit, never mind year, try decade instead!! We were sitting top of the table, a position I agree with many on here our performances (not results) did not merit, playing the rock bottom of the table. Okay, I accept that nevertheless, I was concerned that it would be a tough game because Stoke have many players in their team who are BETTER than what we have. But that said, their manager and the team were under enormous pressure going into the game with confidence shot - whilst we had the motivation of cementing our place at the top of the table and moving further ahead of some of the chasing pack.

They even gave us a goal start but then that bunch of incompetent wimps masquerading as professional footballers in the shirts of our club, decided to take the afternoon off. It was pathetic. It was shameful. And Cooper didn't have a frigging clue what to do about it. I'm not going to rehash what went wrong because I think everyone (except Cooper) knows what went wrong. We know his formation sucks; that he persistently plays people in positions that the whole world and their dogs (except Cooper) knows doesn't suit them or the team. But even allowing for that, the sheer incompetence and lack of effort from our team beggared belief. Our so-called engine, the midfield, was non-existent. Joe Allen outperformed the lot of them on his own with an industrious, prompting and intelligent performance that quietly set up Stoke for the win. Grimes, for example, even when he had the ball showed he couldn't hit a cow's ass with a banjo but he seemed to find a Stoke shirt with unerring accuracy! Cooper has to sort this and damned quickly, failing which we will need AT LEAST two midfielders in January. As for creative play, perhaps someone can explain to Cooper and his players exactly what that means.

Poor Borja worked his nuts off and had to feed off scraps. When he did hold the ball up there was sweet sod all coming his way in terms of support. Part of the reason for this is that, since Dan James left, we have absolutely no pace in this team and our transition is so painfully slow, opposing defenders have all the time in the world to organise and target our players. Walking football is great exercise for has-beens (okay, never was) like me, and older men, but utterly useless in the world of professional football. And it would help if some intensive work was put in during training on how to pass and retain the ball because what I'm looking at is telling me that we don't have a fcuking clue how to do this any longer.

Another thing that upset me was nothing to do with the players. At 1-1 on about 80 or so minutes and pushing for the win, we had a series of goal incidents that led to a few corners. Guess what? We needed to take the corner kicks pdq to keep up the pressure but there were NO BALL BOYS BEHIND THE GOAL! The kicker had to go hunting the ball himself before he could take the kick so wasting valuable time. This was so UNPROFESSIONAL. Being professional is paying attention to detail no matter how trivial it seems but we seem to ignore the important details let alone the trivial ones. Okay, I've vented my spleen for long enough now but, believe me, there was so much wrong with today, I could write three times as much and not cover everything. Final thought, Mr Cooper, it's about time YOU PLAYED OUR MOST CREATIVE PLAYER THROUGH THE MIDDLE WHERE HE CAN DO THE MOST DAMAGE and not stuck out wide where his effectiveness is nullified. We have enough wingers on our books, so fcukingwell USE them - preferably the ones with pace and who know how to cross a ball!

PS: If anyone thinks I've been harsh, I can tell you that I slipped out for a smoke after the game and heard comment after comment such as 'fucking disgrace', 'bunch of wankers', 'fucking garbage' and much, much more from fans who were bitterly angry about that debacle of performance. All this directed at a doorman who was hardly responsible for any of it, poor sod.
 
#64
Fully agreed Ivor, that performance today was reminiscent of the darks days of football under Clement and Monk. Bereft of ideas, creativity, pace or anything that one could find some enjoyment in. I understand Routs is a favourite on here but to choose him over Garrick (and that late in the game as well) is an utter travesty. We were crying out for some pace from the 10th minute and we were denied it.

Rotation is key and keeping the same lineup (basically) for the 3rd time in 7 days is also why we were so poor. You could tell some of the players were leggy but that is absolutely no excuse; the passing today was beyond lazy and Woodman had a serious off day in his deliveries as well. A real come down to earth moment for us and now the international break is looking like a godsend for us to sort it out.
 
#66
Just two questions. Why were we top?? And why are they bottom??
Because we still have one of the best defences in the Championship, and Stoke one of the worst, if not the worst. We have been extremely clinical in front of goal (read: lucky), which means we have scored from a low number of low quality chances. Stoke have not created much either. Actually, they create as much as we do.

We have had two out of eleven games where we have dominated our opponents - Hull and Birmingham game. In half of the other games we have been equally good as our opponents - Derby, Reading, Forest, Bristol and Charlton. Preston, QPR and Leeds have outplayed us, but we have converted more than they have because we have fought for 90 minutes and thrown bodies on the line to block shots.
 
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ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
#67
Speaking to Eleanor during the game. Stoke conceded a foul and I muttered that it was a good free kick to concede. She asked me what I meant and I said that the foul had broken some dangerous momentum from us but had been committed in OUR half. I said that had it been in their own half then it would have been a bad free kick to concede as we could have loaded the box to pressure them.

Just before the end, we conceded a free kick in OUR half and I told her that that was an example of a bad free kick to give away. A few seconds later, after we had only partially scrambled the ball away, they scored the winner, which graphically illustrated my point. :(

Btw, Cooper has said that he has fostered team spirit by coaxing and cajoling his players rather than shouting at them. After this disgrace I hope that his words stripped the paint off the walls after the game. Then when he finished, I hope that he stood in front of a mirror and did it all again.
 
#68
Why is Dhanda getting ahead of Routs, Byers and others in selection. He’s mostly invisible, does bugger all to tackle and retrieve the ball, is physically too light weight, and doesn’t support Borja through the middle. As a result, we played yesterday with Just two in midfield and Allen ran riot. What is driving Cooper’s selection ... ok, I get it, we’re just fans and supposedly don’t know shit, but this is not hard to see .... we are witnessing under performance and incoherence on the field. We’ve lost our shape, our speed and our quality.
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
#69
Some stats if you want them.......

POSSESSION: 54-46 SHOTS: 22-18 OT: 6-9 CORNERS: 7-1 FOULS: 11-17 GOALS: 1-2

ok, I get it, we’re just fans and supposedly don’t know shit
That's the perception within the game and, imo, it couldn't be more wrong. I have over 60 years experience watching football, playing football at a reasonably decent level and taking the FAW coaching course back in the day (which I know you also did) and I believe that this qualifies me to make judgements on football matches vis a vis players' performances, tactics, subsititutions, game attitudes, fitness issues and so on. Put simply, I know what I'm looking for and I know what I'm looking at. And this applies to many spectators including most who post on here. We are NOT idiots. We KNOW the game based on years of watching and absorbing what we have seen: and it counts for a damned sight more than those condescending arseholes lucky enough to steal a living from the game, would have, or like, you believe.

We have some top posters on this forum whose opinions I totally respect because they love and think football with particular regard to our Swans. As a group we are honest, not stupidly biased and call the shots as we see them for better or worse and dispensing praise or criticism as appropriate. In my opinion there are people at the Liberty who should read these pages because they might find that we're nothing like as daft as they think. And you know, I think they just might learn something themselves.
 

Borini

Key Player
#70
Some stats if you want them.......

POSSESSION: 54-46 SHOTS: 22-18 OT: 6-9 CORNERS: 7-1 FOULS: 11-17 GOALS: 1-2



That's the perception within the game and, imo, it couldn't be more wrong. I have over 60 years experience watching football, playing football at a reasonably decent level and taking the FAW coaching course back in the day (which I know you also did) and I believe that this qualifies me to make judgements on football matches vis a vis players' performances, tactics, subsititutions, game attitudes, fitness issues and so on. Put simply, I know what I'm looking for and I know what I'm looking at. And this applies to many spectators including most who post on here. We are NOT idiots. We KNOW the game based on years of watching and absorbing what we have seen: and it counts for a damned sight more than those condescending arseholes lucky enough to steal a living from the game, would have, or like, you believe.

We have some top posters on this forum whose opinions I totally respect because they love and think football with particular regard to our Swans. As a group we are honest, not stupidly biased and call the shots as we see them for better or worse and dispensing praise or criticism as appropriate. In my opinion there are people at the Liberty who should read these pages because they just mind find that we're nothing like as daft as they think. And you know, I think they just might learn something themselves.
They have to learn to read first @ivoralljack !
 

Jackflash

Midfield General
Staff member
#71
Because we still have one of the best defences in the Championship, and Stoke one of the worst, if not the worst. We have been extremely clinical in front of goal (read: lucky), which means we have scored from a low number of low quality chances. Stoke have not created much either. Actually, they create as much as we do.

We have had two out of eleven games where we have dominated our opponents - Hull and Birmingham game. In half of the other games we have been equally good as our opponents - Derby, Reading, Forest, Bristol and Charlton. Preston, QPR and Leeds have outplayed us, but we have converted more than they have because we have fought for 90 minutes and thrown bodies on the line to block shots.
Just looking at the points tally over the last five games.
We have accrude a measly 5 pts while the others in the top six

WBA 10 pts
Forest 13 pts
PNE 11 pts
Leeds 7 pts
Bristol C 9 pts
To find a club that equals our points tally you have to go down the league to Millwall in 15th place.
 

Borini

Key Player
#72
Just looking at the points tally over the last five games.
We have accrude a measly 5 pts while the others in the top six

WBA 10 pts
Forest 13 pts
PNE 11 pts
Leeds 7 pts
Bristol C 9 pts
To find a club that equals our points tally you have to go down the league to Millwall in 15th place.
As far as I can see we are a mid table team. We are sinking to our natural level. People have got carried away with the points we have accrued, mostly by luck, some well earned. It is a long season.... things will even out.
 
#73
Just looking at the points tally over the last five games.
We have accrude a measly 5 pts while the others in the top six

WBA 10 pts
Forest 13 pts
PNE 11 pts
Leeds 7 pts
Bristol C 9 pts
To find a club that equals our points tally you have to go down the league to Millwall in 15th place.
In some of our last 5 games we have lost points due to bad game management. Grimes against Forest and Naughton against Reading. That's 4 points lost. Even against Stoke we conceded in the 90th minute. That's 5 extra points.

Sometimes you have to defend 1:0 lead, and sometimes you have to accept that a draw is ok when you are not playing well. The Championship is a marathon and 5 points could be huge at the end of the season.
 
#74
As far as I can see we are a mid table team. We are sinking to our natural level. People have got carried away with the points we have accrued, mostly by luck, some well earned. It is a long season.... things will even out.
Honestly, I don't think Forest, Bristol, QPR...have better squads. Leeds, WBA and Fulham are favourites for the top three places, but we have enough quality to be in the mix of the ten teams who are fighting for the last three play-off places. We will be there if Cooper changes our style of play. If not, then we will have sunk to the mid-table mediocrity at the end of the season.
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
#75
Honestly, I don't think Forest, Bristol, QPR...have better squads. Leeds, WBA and Fulham are favourites for the top three places, but we have enoigh quality to be in the mix of the ten teams who are fighting for the last three play-off places. We will be there if Cooper changes our style of play. If not, then we will have sunk to the mid-table mediocrity at the end of the season.
I tend to agree with this. We do have some talented players in terms of Championship level but I honestly think that Cooper is not making the best use of the tools at his disposal. With respect to him, I think his inexperience at league level is becoming more evident by the game including things such as squad rotation etc. But where is Leon and perhaps Curt in all this? And come to that, Mike Marsh has a lot of experience. Surely they can see what is so obvious to all of us? And it's not just us on here as I read very many opinions in the media from other fans who share our views. In fact, I would say that the ratio is about 99 to 1 who think that Cooper is not making the best use of what he's got. Perhaps he should have a quiet think and seek some advice from those at the club who have more experience because that doesn't seem to be happening imo.
 

Jackflash

Midfield General
Staff member
#76
Initially at the start of the season i think the squad still had Potters influence in them, gradually Cooper has introduced his ideas,which actually appear to be lacking in the one thing that matters,experience at this level. It would appear his honeymoon period is over, As Ivor says,maybe he needs to swallow his pride and seek the advice of Curt & Leon before we reach an unrecoverable position in the table.
 
#77
Initially at the start of the season i think the squad still had Potters influence in them, gradually Cooper has introduced his ideas,which actually appear to be lacking in the one thing that matters,experience at this level. It would appear his honeymoon period is over, As Ivor says,maybe he needs to swallow his pride and seek the advice of Curt & Leon before we reach an unrecoverable position in the table.
Exactly that first sentence. I think I commented when Cooper was first hired that it would be Sept or so when his lack of experience coaching seniors v seniors would catch up .... and lo and behold it appears that is the case. He has the next two weeks figure it out and reboot the squad. He has added little value to the squad as a whole .... and not to disrespect Dhanda, but he is playing an age / experience level game, and it's just not good enough in a #10 role, for this club, in this team, in this league. However, unless Cooper is completely blind then either the seniors are shirking practice or Dhanda is not being pressured enough in practice and is shining above his weight, looking better than he is and therefore would deliver against senior opposition that are sharp, savvy and studded. Against Stoke, Dhanda didn't need to have the studs applied, the opposition just needed to lean into him or use their body effectively. It would be one thing if Dhanda was calling the plays, moving the ball, taking shots stinging the keeper's hands etc .... but its not happening.
 
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