Shuddersfield under the lights.

[Jackflash]

My take on our situation is that the players seem to have lost respect for Cooper as a manager and are as puzzled as we are by many of his decisions. So they are just going through the motions sensing that he is struggling to get to grips with the requirements of his job. That is not to say that they don't like him as a person because he is a very likeable character. But he is not showing assertiveness and leadership or knowledge enough to take this team on and the players sense as much. That's my theory for what it's worth.

Your probably rght Ivor, initially his start with us still had the remnants of Potters coaching,players knew their position and synchronised. Now it's very noticable that a plan B is not mentioned as it seems we have no plan A to begin with, and things seem to be getting worse.We are in dire need for a manager professionaly experienced at this level, not someone who believed he was.Can't see us progressing under Cooper, in fact regressing. Time once again for a change before it's too late.

 

[Jackflash]

Could it be as simple as:
The receiver wants to move forward onto the ball, the passer aims at where his team mate currently is.
After a couple of times, enduring groans from the crowd, the passer decides to play safe and pass backwards.
I imagine seniors like Routledge and dyer would raise this issue in team meetings. Are they ignored or are we incapable of performing this basic skill?

I think your right BTG, playing to a players feet momentarily stops the game,this was always taught to me as insecurity,(fear of a stray pass}. It would seem that weighted accurate forward passing is way down the list on the training ground.Time was when we used to enjoy such forward flowing football.

 

[ivoralljack]

I think your right BTG, playing to a players feet momentarily stops the game,this was always taught to me as insecurity,(fear of a stray pass}. It would seem that weighted accurate forward passing is way down the list on the training ground.Time was when we used to enjoy such forward flowing football.

BTG & JF absolutely right about this. A pass, whenever possible, should be weighted a few yards in front of the recipient so he shouldn't have to break stride to collect it. This injects pace, fluency and tempo into the move and gets defenders back-pedalling and out of shape. This was basic training when I was a lad (he ducks as the comments fly in ) and is as valid today as it was then. Thing is, if the players off the ball aren't making the supporting runs then the whole thing breaks down. We're back to movement OFF the ball again aren't we?

 

[Borini]

BTG & JF absolutely right about this. A pass, whenever possible, should be weighted a few yards in front of the recipient so he shouldn't have to break stride to collect it. This injects pace, fluency and tempo into the move and gets defenders back-pedalling and out of shape. This was basic training when I was a lad (he ducks as the comments fly in ) and is as valid today as it was then. Thing is, if the players off the ball aren't making the supporting runs then the whole thing breaks down. We're back to movement OFF the ball again aren't we?

Movement in general would be good!

 

[Yankee_Jack]

Byers passed into touch against Millwall ... like that Portuguese starlet Clements loaned in from Munich ... how did Byers catch that flu.

 

[CroJack]

A pass, whenever possible, should be weighted a few yards in front of the recipient so he shouldn't have to break stride to collect it. This injects pace, fluency and tempo into the move and gets defenders back-pedalling and out of shape.

We do that in patches. The question is why it's only in patches? Our whole game plan should be based on pass & move, fluency and much higher passing tempo.

Here is what's wrong with our passing:

1. Players don't move to attack empty spaces
2. When some of them move, the others don't follow
3. When a player moves into free space the pass he 'receives' hits his heels instead of being played in front of him
4. Too many unnecessary backward and sideway passes when there is a better option
5. Too often we pass the ball to players who are under pressure and with their back to opposition goal so we either lose possession or get fouled. The latter slows us down.
6. Too few ball carriers in our squad. Celina, Hoorn, Dhanda and Peterson make forward runs with the ball, but others?

 

[CroJack]

Thing is, if the players off the ball aren't making the supporting runs then the whole thing breaks down.

That requires some running. Isn't that too much to ask from players who earn £20.000 a week?

 

[ivoralljack]

I will say this, though, as a particularly notable exception to this rule. Stanley Matthews preferred to receive his passes to feet but then he was known as 'The Wizard of the Dribble' and 'The Magician'. He was never quick even by the slower standards of his day BUT he was lightning quick over the first 5 yards and could beat a man in a telephone box. I once saw this demonstrated on TV (live show in B&W) where Wally Barnes then captain of Arsenal and Wales was challenged to get the ball off Matthews on a TV studio stage in front of an audience. Barnes was a high quality FB but had little success in getting the ball off Matthews even though he knew what was coming and it took place in a very restricted environment.

Matthews was super fit and played international football when he was 42 years old and First Division (today's Premier League equivalent) football for Stoke City when he WAS OVER 50 YEARS OF AGE. In fact I was in the crowd at Stoke during our cup run to the semi-final in 1964 when Matthews, who was never a prolific scorer, actually scored against us in a 2-2 draw. Keith Todd got our 2 and we won the replay at the Vetch 2-0 in a game I also saw.

His most famous game was the 1953 Cup Final against Bolton Wanderers when he inspired Blackpool, who were losing 1-3, to a 4-3 victory. Given his age, it would be his last attempt to get a winner's medal and the game has forever been known as 'Matthews Match'. Here's a flavour but it doesn't do justice to the non-stop trickery of Matthews as he made run after run on the right wing to get the win and his medal.

 

[CroJack]

I will say this, though, as a particularly notable exception to this rule. Stanley Matthews preferred to receive his passes to feet but then he was known as 'The Wizard of the Dribble' and 'The Magician'. He was never quick even by the slower standards of his day BUT he was lightning quick over the first 5 yards and could beat a man in a telephone box. I once saw this demonstrated on TV (live show in B&W) where Wally Barnes then captain of Arsenal and Wales was challenged to get the ball off Matthews on a TV studio stage in front of an audience. Barnes was a high quality FB but had little success in getting the ball off Matthews even though he knew what was coming and it took place in a very restricted environment.

Matthews was super fit and played international football when he was 42 years old and First Division (today's Premier League equivalent) football for Stoke City when he WAS OVER 50 YEARS OF AGE. In fact I was in the crowd at Stoke during our cup run to the semi-final in 1964 when Matthews, who was never a prolific scorer, actually scored against us in a 2-2 draw. Keith Todd got our 2 and we won the replay at the Vetch 2-0 in a game I also saw.

His most famous game was the 1953 Cup Final against Bolton Wanderers when he inspired Blackpool, who were losing 1-3, to a 4-3 victory. Given his age, it would be his last attempt to get a winner's medal and the game has forever been known as 'Matthews Match'. Here's a flavour but it doesn't do justice to the non-stop trickery of Matthews as he made run after run on the right wing to get the win and his medal.

Or this one:

 

[Behindthegoal]

Very enjoyable video CJ. It was noticeable how comfortable he was on either foot. Ambipedality is a major asset for dribblers as defenders have to cover both options.
I don't suppose players can practise using their other foot?

 

[KVetch]

I will say this, though, as a particularly notable exception to this rule. Stanley Matthews preferred to receive his passes to feet but then he was known as 'The Wizard of the Dribble' and 'The Magician'. He was never quick even by the slower standards of his day BUT he was lightning quick over the first 5 yards and could beat a man in a telephone box. I once saw this demonstrated on TV (live show in B&W) where Wally Barnes then captain of Arsenal and Wales was challenged to get the ball off Matthews on a TV studio stage in front of an audience. Barnes was a high quality FB but had little success in getting the ball off Matthews even though he knew what was coming and it took place in a very restricted environment.

Matthews was super fit and played international football when he was 42 years old and First Division (today's Premier League equivalent) football for Stoke City when he WAS OVER 50 YEARS OF AGE. In fact I was in the crowd at Stoke during our cup run to the semi-final in 1964 when Matthews, who was never a prolific scorer, actually scored against us in a 2-2 draw. Keith Todd got our 2 and we won the replay at the Vetch 2-0 in a game I also saw.

His most famous game was the 1953 Cup Final against Bolton Wanderers when he inspired Blackpool, who were losing 1-3, to a 4-3 victory. Given his age, it would be his last attempt to get a winner's medal and the game has forever been known as 'Matthews Match'. Here's a flavour but it doesn't do justice to the non-stop trickery of Matthews as he made run after run on the right wing to get the win and his medal.

Love that old video. What were they earning then £5 a week.

 

[ivoralljack]

Love that old video. What were they earning then £5 a week.

I don't know, but more than that. Maybe 10 to 15 quid a week would be my guess.

 

[ivoralljack]

I don't know, but more than that. Maybe 10 to 15 quid a week would be my guess.

I looked it up and my guess was pretty near the mark. In those days players received less out of season.

Despite the efforts of the Players' Union, there was no other change until 1945 when the maximum close season wage was increased to £7 per week. Two years later a National Arbitration Tribunal was established. It decided that the maximum wage should be raised to £12 in the playing season and £10 in the close season. The minimum wage for players over 20 was set at £7.

The maximum wage was increased to £14 (1951), £15 (1953), £17 (1957) and £20 (1958). The union argued that in 1939 the footballers' £8 was approximately double the average industrial wage, by 1960 the gap had narrowed to £5 with these figures standing at £20 and £15 respectively.

 

[Jackflash]

I don't know, but more than that. Maybe 10 to 15 quid a week would be my guess.

In 1962/3 I was still very good freinds from school with Herbie Williams,and would meet him most days,me from work, him from the Vetch At the Port Tennant bus stop about 4-30. him with his football togs (boots) around his neck. We often dicussed earning,Herbie at that time was on £17 a week,take home pay. I as a plant fitter could easily earn the same or even more with a little overtime. How times have changed.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

@ivoralljack ... there were two players in your video ... Matthews and Mortenson ... legends in English soccer at the time.

When Ivor retired in '68, he was third behind Matthews and Jimmy Dickenson in league games played.

Here are the key stats:
Dickenson (left-half): 764 games played (all with Portsmouth). 9 goals. Retired in '65, 48 caps for England.
Matthews (winger): 697 games played. 71 goals.
Ivor (#10): 691 games played. 249 goals.

 

[ivoralljack]

In 1962/3 I was still very good freinds from school with Herbie Williams,and would meet him most days,me from work, him from the Vetch At the Port Tennant bus stop about 4-30. him with his football togs (boots) around his neck. We often dicussed earning,Herbie at that time was on £17 a week,take home pay. I as a plant fitter could easily earn the same or even more with a little overtime. How times have changed.

Money was the reason why I passed on two opportunties as I posted recently A) as a 'potential' pro footballer and B) a nailed on job as a football journalist. There was a third actually because when I boxed as an amateur my trainers said I had the ability to turn pro. Now there's always been plenty of money in boxing, so that wasn't the reason I refused. Cutting straight to the point, I didn't agree with my trainers. I did very well as an amateur but there's a world of difference between that and the pro game. It's a punishing life (training, sparring, roadwork, dieting, making the weight etc) even when you aren't getting punched - and pros know how to do that. Properly. Even as an amateur I could hardly believe how brutal, and I mean brutal, the training was and that was just gym work, weights, sparring with other amateurs and circuit training. Okay, my trainers were utterly fanatical about fitness but they reasoned that it was essential to give you that edge in fights. Football training at my level was a doddle in comparison. So I gave boxing a miss mainly because I didn't think I'd be good enough as a pro and end up being a journeyman punchbag for up and coming talent.

Mind you, given the chance to be a world class footballer or a world champion boxer, I'd choose being a boxer every time.

 

[CroJack]

The maximum wage was increased to £14 (1951), £15 (1953), £17 (1957) and £20 (1958). The union argued that in 1939 the footballers' £8 was approximately double the average industrial wage, by 1960 the gap had narrowed to £5 with these figures standing at £20 and £15 respectively.

And nowdays when you argue for maximum wage and fight against inequality they call you a communist. I can't remember Britain being either a socialist or a communist country.

 

[Victoria Swan]

We'll be out of the top six tomorrow night.

No we aren't!

 

[CroJack]

No we aren't!

Almost .

 

[KVetch]

Do

Money was the reason why I passed on two opportunties as I posted recently A) as a 'potential' pro footballer and B) a nailed on job as a football journalist. There was a third actually because when I boxed as an amateur my trainers said I had the ability to turn pro. Now there's always been plenty of money in boxing, so that wasn't the reason I refused. Cutting straight to the point, I didn't agree with my trainers. I did very well as an amateur but there's a world of difference between that and the pro game. It's a punishing life (training, sparring, roadwork, dieting, making the weight etc) even when you aren't getting punched - and pros know how to do that. Properly. Even as an amateur I could hardly believe how brutal, and I mean brutal, the training was and that was just gym work, weights, sparring with other amateurs and circuit training. Okay, my trainers were utterly fanatical about fitness but they reasoned that it was essential to give you that edge in fights. Football training at my level was a doddle in comparison. So I gave boxing a miss mainly because I didn't think I'd be good enough as a pro and end up being a journeyman punchbag for up and coming talent.

Mind you, given the chance to be a world class footballer or a world champion boxer, I'd choose being a boxer every time.

That's funny, people would always ask me if I was a boxer. They said you have a boxers face.