Dumb & Dumber

[CroJack]

"Russell Martin has insisted that he has not interest in entertaining the the 'slippery slope' of compromising his managerial principles. He insists he has not intention of abandoning his core philosophies, having launched another staunch defence of his methods ahead of the trip to the Hawthorns."

“What we have is a way of playing that does challenge other teams. We speak to other coaches and players and they are telling us they have to do an awful lot of work on how they are out of possession,” he said.

“But, when you have a very clear vision for something, and you have been asked to bring something to this club, the minute you compromise on one thing that is really important to the team it becomes a slippery slope, in my opinion."
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1. Apart from the boring possession football I don't know what this 'core philosopy' is and what it means. When we appointed him I thought the possession football was just the first step, a piece in the puzzle, and not the goal. Where is the high pressing/gegen-pressing, running, energy, speed, crosses, shots, attacking...?

2. We don't challenge other teams at all. I think we are the easiest team to play against. It's easy to defend against us, and be sure we'll give away at least 2-3 huge chances in each game.

3. Other coaches and players are telling you lies because they can see you are stupid to believe what they are telling you.

4. If you had a clear vision for something, then everyone would see it. I don't, and I'm not blind.
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Here is what Matt Grimes said in the pre-match interview:

“We know what we want to do and how to do it but when we were lacking intensity it undermined us."

"When we are good we are absolutely incredible but when we were bad we were really bad."

“The way we play is so demanding on every single player being bang on it. If one or two aren’t there then the whole system fails."

“Monday is all about us and we need to get over our rough patch and our good week’s training will allow us to be the best version of ourselves.”
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1. Intensity has nothing to do with the style of play. Intensity can definitely help you, but it has nothing to do with the number of crosses and shots.

2. I am afraid you don't know what you want to do, because if you knew it you would do it game in game out.

3. You were never really good, not to talk about 'absolutely incredible' bull****. But it's true that when you are bad you are really bad.

4. The way you play is not demanding on every single player. If you played some high-octane pressing and attacking football, then I would say 'Wow, this is demanding', but the slow shit you play is definitely not demanding. Also, if one or two players underperform then it's on the manager to sub them.

5. Let's see if a 'good week's training will allow you to be the best version of yourselves' although I don't know what your best version is.

 

[KVetch]

We have the possession aspect but nothing else, we've lost our way on both sides of the ball. What are his tactics? He's a young manager, his managerial principles should be evolving. He shouldn't be stuck with 1 philosophy.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

Based on Grimes’ words, if the system fails if “one or two aren’t there”, then the system is fragile and therefore vulnerable. It would get crushed in the Prem and has been crushed by the top teams in this league and more recently by lesser teams. It’s not a system that is sustainable, and not one that will earn promotion. In every game, you can expect to see one or two players at or below par, a system has to be resilient in the face of that.

the more Martin speaks the more his credibility shrinks. To say what he said means he’s reading his press. He’s reading forums. Or he’s full of self-doubt and trying to talk himself into denying the obvious … it’s not working.

 

[CroJack]

In every game, you can expect to see one or two players at or below par, a system has to be resilient in the face of that.

Exactly. There will always be sloppy passes and losses of possession in dangerous areas, but that shouldn't be a huge problem if the system was built to prevent quick transitions and counter-attacks on one side of the pitch, and to be effective in terms of goals on the other. Neither is the case in the Martin's setup.

 

[jackodiamonds]

I dislike the way Martin alludes to some high tactical principle, as though if only the players were good enough then the world would see what a genius he is. A good football system should be predicated on basics which even average players can handle, but have the potential to be something special with good quality players. That way, as the team gradually identifies and brings in new talent to fit, an already foundationally strong system just gets better.

Martin came to a team that included last season's top assists producer among defenders (Jake Bidwell), but Martin's "system" couldn't find a place for him. If I'm ownership, I'm wondering if I made the right managerial hire. Instead, this team gave Bidwell away for free to a division rival. 8 assists out the door, because for Martin the numbers in the assists and goals columns are completely obscured by the number in the possession column. Someone needs to tell him it's not 2011 anymore.

 

[Yankee_Jack]

I dislike the way Martin alludes to some high tactical principle, as though if only the players were good enough then the world would see what a genius he is. A good football system should be predicated on basics which even average players can handle, but have the potential to be something special with good quality players. That way, as the team gradually identifies and brings in new talent to fit, an already foundationally strong system just gets better.

Exactly: Martinez, Sousa, Rogers, Laudrup ... all did exactly this.

Martin came to a team that included last season's top assists producer among defenders (Jake Bidwell), but Martin's "system" couldn't find a place for him. If I'm ownership, I'm wondering if I made the right managerial hire. Instead, this team gave Bidwell away for free to a division rival. 8 assists out the door, because for Martin the numbers in the assists and goals columns are completely obscured by the number in the possession column. Someone needs to tell him it's not 2011 anymore.

The most glaring example of Martin's incompetence ... and the inability of executives and technical director (who the fuck is that today anyway) to see through the BS and call BS on Martin's Madness. The loss of Roberts was impactful - and I can appreciate that he needed to professionally move up from a club that failed to achieve and that there was a financial consideration involved from the Club's perspective. The dismissal of Bidwell was malpractice bordering on criminal.