Behindthegoal
Key Player
I voted NO forty years ago, I voted out two years ago. Brexit? Yes please, the harder the better.
BREXIT
- Thread starter Jackflash
- Start date
I can’t bear what this has done to our country and it’s frightening that those paid to run the show haven’t been grown up enough to set party politics to one side to sit down together to sort the mess out - I have no idea how it will pan out but the world is a scary old place at the moment - social media and the internet have turned everything on its head - it’s a revolution of sorts but what type? how will it end? And how much will it hurt? One things for certain - it won’t hurt the politicians anywhere near as much as their electorate that’s for sure
The Government suffered a landslide defeat of May's Brexit deal, 230 for 432 against, MP's differing on both parties, but all saying what they don't want rather than what they do want. We all know what we do want, a trouble free exit with all smiles and handshakes, it's never going to happen. Corbyn is of course delighted at the result, but for no other reason other than to table a vote of no confidence in the government. After almost two years the gap is wider now than then.We are now being dictated to by countries who themselves cannot afford to leave the EU financially or can afford to let us leave for that reason. The EU has always had a division, givers and takers, Just what do we really gain by being a member, we have been financially baling out countries while our own NHS has suffered a lack of funds. If it has to be a no deal then so be it, yes we'll suffer initially and so will they. Exporting isn't just one way traffic, they know this, and if a no deal looks on the cards I believe they'll take the revolver away from our head before the final day. We are less dependant on what they sell to us than us to them. We can live without French wine, or tulips from Amsterdam.
Theresa May survived the 'No Confidence' vote, but not convincingly. She has now called for a cross party consensus, but who has thrown the spanner in the works, Corbyn, (unless it's done the way he wants.) says he will not attend, the leader of the only party that's going to make any real difference. We are in effect in a political war with Europe, Is it not time for parties to united and stand up and fight back as the UNITED KINGDOM. The electorate of this country voted to leave the EU. Irrespective of parties, it is the duty of ALL MP's to respect the overall wishes of the people. Corbyn is playing directly into the hands of the EU President Juncker, who is more than happy to see the UK in disarray, hence stating "That's the deal take it or leave it". Of course there's lots more room for further negotiations, but why should he concede to anything when the likes of Corbyn is pushing for a second referendum, exactly what Juncker would want. Could you ever imagine Churchill being dictated to like this? I remember when a lot of our so called knowledgeable MP's (all parties) said it would mean disaster for our country if we did not join the EURO Currency. Best thing we NEVER did.
Another blow for the EU as they try to tighten their grip on existing members.
Sweden voted overwhelmingly in a national referendum today to reject changing their currency the Krona for the European single currency the Euro, a result that hasn't gone down too well in Brussels.
Sweden voted overwhelmingly in a national referendum today to reject changing their currency the Krona for the European single currency the Euro, a result that hasn't gone down too well in Brussels.
We are now 1,000 days since the British public gave our government the vote to get out of the EU. we are no further ahead now than when those votes were counted. In the last few months the Irish backstop has come to the forefront, it was there almost three years ago but ignored, But now it's one of the major stumbling blocks. The remainers should accept defeat and adhere to the Countries wishes. We even have a remainer negotiating our exit, and no one is more aware of this than Claude Juncker, and he can brainwash May with all the negatives of leaving. The last thing Juncker wants is us to leave, we are probably the EU's biggest cash cow. Germany seems to be going into a mini recession, the last thing they want is to lose their huge car import into the UK. Spain, Greece, and Italy rely on EU handouts. We voted for out and out it should be by whatever means, I think our leaving will be the thin edge of the wedge of the dismantling of this money grabbing EU. Probably another reason why Juncker doesn't want us to leave, he doesn't want other countries to see us benefit from leaving. Ted Heath signed us up for a Common Market deal, which was a good thing, but we were slowly and surely dragged into this Euro.Union where they became our rulers. We survived without them before, and can do so again, LETS GET OUT.
This is an oldie but, in the light of the vote last night and recent events, it bears repeating.
The golf club and Brexit: an analogy...
The golf club and Brexit: an analogy...
If like me this whole BREXIT fiasco confuses you - fear no more.
The narrative below is a simple concise explanation of the whole complex process and is set out in terms we can all follow.
For me it is now crystal clear:-
Mr David Davis is at the golf club returning his locker key when Mr Barnier, the membership secretary sees him.
"Hello Mr Davis", says Mr Barnier. "I'm sorry to hear you are no longer renewing your club membership, if you would like to come to my office we can settle your account".
"I have settled my bar bill" says Mr Davis.
"Ah yes, Mr Davis", says Mr Barnier, "but there are other matters that need settlement".
In Mr Barnier's office, Mr Davis explains that he has settled his bar bill so wonders what else he can possibly owe the Golf Club?
"Well Mr Davis" begins Mr Barnier, "you did agree to buy one of our Club Jackets".
"Yes" agrees Mr Davis "I did agree to buy a jacket but I haven't received it yet. As soon as you supply the jacket I will send you a cheque for the full amount".
"That will not be possible" explains Mr Barnier. "As you are no longer a club member you will not be entitled to buy one of our jackets"!
"But you still want me to pay for it" exclaims Mr Davis.
"Yes" says Mr Barnier, "That will be £500 for the jacket. "There is also your bar bill".
"But I've already settled my bar bill" says Mr Davis.
"Yes" says Mr Barnier, "but as you can appreciate, we need to place our orders from the Brewery in advance to ensure our bar is properly stocked. You regularly used to spend at least £50 a week in the bar so we have placed orders with the brewery accordingly for the coming year. You therefore owe us £2600 for the year".
"Will you still allow me to have these drinks?" asks Mr Davis.
"No of course not Mr Davis. You are no longer a club member!" says Mr Barnier.
"Next is your restaurant bill" continues Mr Barnier. "In the same manner we have to make arrangements in advance with our catering suppliers. Your average restaurant bill was in the order of £300 a month, so we'll require payment of £3600 for the next year"
"I don't suppose you'll be letting me have these meals either" asks Mr Davis.
"No, of course not" says an irritated Mr Barnier, "you are no longer a club member!"
"Then of course" Mr Barnier continues, "there are repairs to the clubhouse roof"
"Clubhouse roof" exclaims Mr Davis, "What's that got to do with me?"
"Well it still needs to be repaired and the builders are coming in next week, your share of the bill is £2000"
"I see" says Mr Davis, "anything else?".
"Now you mention it" says Mr Barnier, "there is Fred the Barman's pension. We would like you to pay £5 a week towards Fred's pension when he retires next month. He's not well you know so I doubt we'll need to ask you for payment for longer than about five years, so £1300 should do it. This brings your total bill to £10,000" says Mr Barnier.
"Let me get this straight" says Mr Davis, "you want me to pay £500 for a jacket you won't let me have, £2600 for beverages you won't let me drink and £3600 for food you won't let me eat, all under a roof I won't be allowed under and not served by a bloke who's going to retire next month!
"Yes, it's all perfectly clear and quite reasonable" says Mr Barnier.
Now you understand what Brexit is all about!
The narrative below is a simple concise explanation of the whole complex process and is set out in terms we can all follow.
For me it is now crystal clear:-
Mr David Davis is at the golf club returning his locker key when Mr Barnier, the membership secretary sees him.
"Hello Mr Davis", says Mr Barnier. "I'm sorry to hear you are no longer renewing your club membership, if you would like to come to my office we can settle your account".
"I have settled my bar bill" says Mr Davis.
"Ah yes, Mr Davis", says Mr Barnier, "but there are other matters that need settlement".
In Mr Barnier's office, Mr Davis explains that he has settled his bar bill so wonders what else he can possibly owe the Golf Club?
"Well Mr Davis" begins Mr Barnier, "you did agree to buy one of our Club Jackets".
"Yes" agrees Mr Davis "I did agree to buy a jacket but I haven't received it yet. As soon as you supply the jacket I will send you a cheque for the full amount".
"That will not be possible" explains Mr Barnier. "As you are no longer a club member you will not be entitled to buy one of our jackets"!
"But you still want me to pay for it" exclaims Mr Davis.
"Yes" says Mr Barnier, "That will be £500 for the jacket. "There is also your bar bill".
"But I've already settled my bar bill" says Mr Davis.
"Yes" says Mr Barnier, "but as you can appreciate, we need to place our orders from the Brewery in advance to ensure our bar is properly stocked. You regularly used to spend at least £50 a week in the bar so we have placed orders with the brewery accordingly for the coming year. You therefore owe us £2600 for the year".
"Will you still allow me to have these drinks?" asks Mr Davis.
"No of course not Mr Davis. You are no longer a club member!" says Mr Barnier.
"Next is your restaurant bill" continues Mr Barnier. "In the same manner we have to make arrangements in advance with our catering suppliers. Your average restaurant bill was in the order of £300 a month, so we'll require payment of £3600 for the next year"
"I don't suppose you'll be letting me have these meals either" asks Mr Davis.
"No, of course not" says an irritated Mr Barnier, "you are no longer a club member!"
"Then of course" Mr Barnier continues, "there are repairs to the clubhouse roof"
"Clubhouse roof" exclaims Mr Davis, "What's that got to do with me?"
"Well it still needs to be repaired and the builders are coming in next week, your share of the bill is £2000"
"I see" says Mr Davis, "anything else?".
"Now you mention it" says Mr Barnier, "there is Fred the Barman's pension. We would like you to pay £5 a week towards Fred's pension when he retires next month. He's not well you know so I doubt we'll need to ask you for payment for longer than about five years, so £1300 should do it. This brings your total bill to £10,000" says Mr Barnier.
"Let me get this straight" says Mr Davis, "you want me to pay £500 for a jacket you won't let me have, £2600 for beverages you won't let me drink and £3600 for food you won't let me eat, all under a roof I won't be allowed under and not served by a bloke who's going to retire next month!
"Yes, it's all perfectly clear and quite reasonable" says Mr Barnier.
Now you understand what Brexit is all about!
CroJack
Key Player
Even the British economists disagree. Every analysis I read has the same conclusion: Britain has benefited more from being a part of EU than it has contributed in membership fee.
This is worth reading:
http://www.cbi.org.uk/insight-and-a...t-2-benefits-of-eu-membership-outweigh-costs/
I agree with you that Junker doesn't want Brexit to happen. It's a lose-lose situation for everybody, including Britain.
These are the same economists that said it would be suicidal NOT to join the Euro currency.
The article is rather dated, the last reference to any figures was 2011 eight years ago, a lot has happened since then. there are no references to any economic figures since. Also there are other major factors other than economic figures that are affecting the UK . eg. border control, immigration, rules (Laws) that are not agreeable to us.
The article stated at that time 2011 the UK were contributing £116 per person to the EU. At that time I was doing a lot of business in Dublin, travelling there 2/3 times a week. The Dublin skyline was a mass of tower cranes, major constructions, The EU were contributing £343 per person to Ireland. Motorway construction between Wexford & Dublin having huge signs every 10 miles or so saying Funded By The EU.
For me, I paid my taxes to the UK government, not to have it used by this conglomerate to fund other countries with it, its not so long back Greece was almost bankrupt and billions of euro's was pumped into them. that's the problem with their system, they cant afford to have one cog go wrong in their machine as it will grind to a halt, so repair it at all costs.
The article is rather dated, the last reference to any figures was 2011 eight years ago, a lot has happened since then. there are no references to any economic figures since. Also there are other major factors other than economic figures that are affecting the UK . eg. border control, immigration, rules (Laws) that are not agreeable to us.
The article stated at that time 2011 the UK were contributing £116 per person to the EU. At that time I was doing a lot of business in Dublin, travelling there 2/3 times a week. The Dublin skyline was a mass of tower cranes, major constructions, The EU were contributing £343 per person to Ireland. Motorway construction between Wexford & Dublin having huge signs every 10 miles or so saying Funded By The EU.
For me, I paid my taxes to the UK government, not to have it used by this conglomerate to fund other countries with it, its not so long back Greece was almost bankrupt and billions of euro's was pumped into them. that's the problem with their system, they cant afford to have one cog go wrong in their machine as it will grind to a halt, so repair it at all costs.
Almost Two & a Half Years ago the UK electorate instructed the government to leave the European Union.
It would appear the governments stance on this was, Two and a Half Years, no rush, plenty of time to sort this out . It seems everything was put on the back burner. Then months before our exit date on the 29th of March all these problems that were there 2.5 years ago come to light and need sorting. Us having a land border with an EU country was there instantly, but it raised its head just months ago. Now with time running out the remainers (conservatives included) see fit to chuck a spanner in the works, Also giving Corbyn his opportunity to do as much damage as he possibly could. I feel the present government has let us down big time. Two years ago we gave them (the EU) billions of pounds on the assumption we'd bought ourselves out. Now they appear to be making up the rules as they go along. For me enough is enough,take the 'No Deal ' on the 29th and let us get on with our lives.
It would appear the governments stance on this was, Two and a Half Years, no rush, plenty of time to sort this out . It seems everything was put on the back burner. Then months before our exit date on the 29th of March all these problems that were there 2.5 years ago come to light and need sorting. Us having a land border with an EU country was there instantly, but it raised its head just months ago. Now with time running out the remainers (conservatives included) see fit to chuck a spanner in the works, Also giving Corbyn his opportunity to do as much damage as he possibly could. I feel the present government has let us down big time. Two years ago we gave them (the EU) billions of pounds on the assumption we'd bought ourselves out. Now they appear to be making up the rules as they go along. For me enough is enough,take the 'No Deal ' on the 29th and let us get on with our lives.
Speaker Berkow, who has been described amongst other things as an odious toad (sorry toads), has done his best to bend the rules to be as obstructive as possible to either scupper Brexit or soften it to a degree that makes it meaningless. He is the mechanism that the elitist Remainers are using to sabotage what the majority of us voted for. The Speaker is supposed to be impartial. Bercow is crooked, as bent as a corkscrew and determined to ensure that the Remainers ride roughshod over what was a democratic vote. I hope he gets his just desserts.
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
The referendum was non-binding. Yet PM acted as if it were so. Referendum was compromised by foreign interference and the same lies and manipulation as was in the Trump election. Yet there’s been no outrage nor investigation, nor question of the result.
The referendum result yielded a very narrow margin in favor of leaving, but a super majority of the electorate voted to stay or did not vote. And yet, we are being driven into a situation that will compromise, disrupt or destroy the value proposition of the UK for future generations on social, economic, security, human rights and other vectors.
The logistical nightmare of disintangling and severing infrastructure, legal, financial, technology, defense and other connections and engagements means that this is not a flick of the switch and at will scenario but that it would be an incredibly complex and costly porcess that with competent people involved would take years ... and we don’t have people involved with the horsepower to envision this new condition never mind map out and lead a journey to it. Every discrete subject matter expert that has opined on the transition and final outcome in their domain has spoken of nothing but adverse impacts.
We are told that this is democracy in action. Yet the PM keeps trying to revote a deal that has been clearly and resoundingly defeated multiple times. The very essence of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result ... yet insanity prevails. And despite this being one of the most calamitous changes in the nations history, the people are being denied democracy by expressing their opinion on the work product of the elected. I guess the PM doesn’t have sufficient confidence in her work product to put it to the ultimate test - to argue it before the people. So much for democracy ... fine if I can win, but fuck you if I can lose.
The pound lost over 12% in value almost immediately after the referendum. This was a real immediate 12% shift in cost in every contract written in a foreign currency not locked, or hedged, and subject to future cost burden on expiration and renewal. For goods and services this cost has now propagated from the importer through to the consumer. For mortgage holders not hedged the impact was immediate. These economic impacts are the tip of the iceberg.
Freedom of movement ... I now walk into Spain easier than I enter into the UK. It’s like I just jumped off a bus at my favorite stop. I can stay as long as I like, whenever I like, for whatever purpose I like. All that will end. Will we need visas? Will we be subject to additional constraints. What other things that we now take for granted, as a natural part of life, will suddenly disappear or become disrupted.
All this and nobody can cite a single material benefit, for us now or future generations, that makes any sense.
The referendum result yielded a very narrow margin in favor of leaving, but a super majority of the electorate voted to stay or did not vote. And yet, we are being driven into a situation that will compromise, disrupt or destroy the value proposition of the UK for future generations on social, economic, security, human rights and other vectors.
The logistical nightmare of disintangling and severing infrastructure, legal, financial, technology, defense and other connections and engagements means that this is not a flick of the switch and at will scenario but that it would be an incredibly complex and costly porcess that with competent people involved would take years ... and we don’t have people involved with the horsepower to envision this new condition never mind map out and lead a journey to it. Every discrete subject matter expert that has opined on the transition and final outcome in their domain has spoken of nothing but adverse impacts.
We are told that this is democracy in action. Yet the PM keeps trying to revote a deal that has been clearly and resoundingly defeated multiple times. The very essence of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result ... yet insanity prevails. And despite this being one of the most calamitous changes in the nations history, the people are being denied democracy by expressing their opinion on the work product of the elected. I guess the PM doesn’t have sufficient confidence in her work product to put it to the ultimate test - to argue it before the people. So much for democracy ... fine if I can win, but fuck you if I can lose.
The pound lost over 12% in value almost immediately after the referendum. This was a real immediate 12% shift in cost in every contract written in a foreign currency not locked, or hedged, and subject to future cost burden on expiration and renewal. For goods and services this cost has now propagated from the importer through to the consumer. For mortgage holders not hedged the impact was immediate. These economic impacts are the tip of the iceberg.
Freedom of movement ... I now walk into Spain easier than I enter into the UK. It’s like I just jumped off a bus at my favorite stop. I can stay as long as I like, whenever I like, for whatever purpose I like. All that will end. Will we need visas? Will we be subject to additional constraints. What other things that we now take for granted, as a natural part of life, will suddenly disappear or become disrupted.
All this and nobody can cite a single material benefit, for us now or future generations, that makes any sense.
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Yankee, there is much I could say about this but I won't as feelings can run high. Religion and politics can be so divisive.
It looks like a peaceful Brexit has hit the buffers. Pointlessly Parliament re-voting on the same rejected issues. Also pointless is requesting an extension if the same proposals are going to be put forward. It's all very one sided with the EU asking continuously for more concessions, whilst conceding absolute zero themselves, which to me spells out we need you more than you need us. As a 'No Deal' seems to be the inevitable outcome I don't think we'll be alone in leaving the Union in the future.
I also think if the system reverted back to the 'Common Market' which was it's original intention, Europe would be a much happier place. We under the Heath government didn't join to be dictated to by Countries that we gave the lives hundreds of thousands of our countrymen for their freedom.
I also think if the system reverted back to the 'Common Market' which was it's original intention, Europe would be a much happier place. We under the Heath government didn't join to be dictated to by Countries that we gave the lives hundreds of thousands of our countrymen for their freedom.
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The European Union is run by the French and Germans for the benefit of the French and Germans. If people cannot see that then any further argument is pointless. Elitist politicians, civil service personnel, businessmen, luvvies, bankers and wealthy people are all quite happy with the status quo in Europe. That should be reason enough for the rest of us to want OUT! Why? Because in effect the ordinary 'working person' pays for it all. Nice for them. NOT nice for the rest of us. Simplistic? Yes. And truthful too.
Spot on Ivor, how's this for a con ! trainer soles were made in China and trainer uppers were made in Turkey (may have been visa versa not to sure) but because the upper was bonded to the sole in Germany, Germany were given licence by the EU to market them as 'Made In Germany'.
CroJack
Key Player
Nice of them to invest some of the money we gave them in the first place.
But to put this into some sort of context, we were contributing £ 116 per head of population, whereas Ireland were receiving £343 per head.
Average Motorway construction cost at that time was about £115/117M per mile. its 70 miles from Wexford to Dublin.
Average Motorway construction cost at that time was about £115/117M per mile. its 70 miles from Wexford to Dublin.
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Has the Home Office already made its mind up?
Have just renewed my passport, it arrived yesterday.
Heading on my old passport
EUROPEAN UNION
UNITED KINGDOM OF
GREAT BRITAIN
AND NORTHERN IRELAND.
Heading on new passport
UNITED KINGDOM OF
GREAT BRITAIN
AND NORTHERN IRELAND
Have just renewed my passport, it arrived yesterday.
Heading on my old passport
EUROPEAN UNION
UNITED KINGDOM OF
GREAT BRITAIN
AND NORTHERN IRELAND.
Heading on new passport
UNITED KINGDOM OF
GREAT BRITAIN
AND NORTHERN IRELAND