BREXIT

[Jackflash]

Is there at last some light at the end of the tunnel.
Michel Barnier says a Brexit deal is possible before November if both sides are "realistic".This statement has caused the £pound to jump up in value.
Also JR-Mogg has just announced he has cancelled his plan to scupper Mays Chequers proposals.
If there is to be a stumbling block, I feel it will be the Irish border agreement.

 

[CroJack]

Just curious. What's the main reason UK voted for Brexit?

 

[Behindthegoal]

A: control immigration - ha ha.
B: freedom from Brussels diktat - ha ha (again)

 

[ivoralljack]

Just curious. What's the main reason UK voted for Brexit?

Because we were pissed off being governed and told how to live our lives by a bunch of unelected, non-accountable, self-serving crooks intent only on lining their pockets at the tax payers expense. This is no exaggeration. The EU is elitist. You only have to look at who supports them: luvvies (actors), pop stars, politicians who aspire to positions on the gravy train, bankers and certain heads of big business conglomerates etc etc.

When we joined it was to be part of an ECONOMIC trading partnership (European Economic Community) but it has now morphed from an economic community to a POLITICAL entity, which aspires to become a European Superstate. I emphasise that the people at the top were NOT elected by the people, they are NOT answerable to the people and the people have no legal way of removing them no matter how corrupt, inefficient or incompetent they are. They live life on the hog with vast salaries, massive expenses packages, first class travel/hotels and countless perks, ALL OF WHICH ARE RIPPED FROM THE TAXPAYER'S POCKETS.

The UK has to abide by decisions and LAWS made in Brussels, which all too often are NOT in our own best interests. The EU is geared to benefit Germany and France with other countries including us, picking up the scraps. AND WE HAVE TO PAY THEM FOR THIS!!! In a democratic country, if you don't like the government or disagree with their policies, you can vote them out at elections, as we do. But the EU are above all this. They can do what they like, when they like and how they like with impunity because there is no mechanism in place which allows voters to get rid of them if need be. They are effectively UNTOUCHABLE.

If a proper Brexit deal is effected, it means that once more the UK can make its own laws, police its own borders and make its own decisions about immigration in terms of whom we are prepared to admit. People of value will be welcome. Freeloaders looking to live off benefits will not be. We will be free to trade with the rest of the world on terms beneficial to us and our trading partners without being hamstrung by EU rules and regulations designed to rein us in and benefit the 'big two', Germany and France.

I could write a book about this but I'll leave it there for now. I'll just say to the Remoaners that, if you think the EU is so great, why don't you just fuck off and live there and leave the rest of us to enjoy life in Britain the way it should be.

 

[Borini]

Because we were pissed off being governed and told how to live our lives by a bunch of unelected, non-accountable, self-serving crooks intent only on lining their pockets at the tax payers expense. This is no exaggeration. The EU is elitist. You only have to look at who supports them: luvvies (actors), pop stars, politicians who aspire to positions on the gravy train, bankers and certain heads of big business conglomerates etc etc.

When we joined it was to be part of an ECONOMIC trading partnership (European Economic Community) but it has now morphed from an economic community to a POLITICAL entity, which aspires to become a European Superstate. I emphasise that the people at the top were NOT elected by the people, they are NOT answerable to the people and the people have no legal way of removing them no matter how corrupt, inefficient or incompetent they are. They live life on the hog with vast salaries, massive expenses packages, first class travel/hotels and countless perks, ALL OF WHICH ARE RIPPED FROM THE TAXPAYER'S POCKETS.

The UK has to abide by decisions and LAWS made in Brussels, which all too often are NOT in our own best interests. The EU is geared to benefit Germany and France with other countries including us, picking up the scraps. AND WE HAVE TO PAY THEM FOR THIS!!! In a democratic country, if you don't like the government or disagree with their policies, you can vote them out at elections, as we do. But the EU are above all this. They can do what they like, when they like and how they like with impunity because there is no mechanism in place which allows voters to get rid of them if need be. They are effectively UNTOUCHABLE.

If a proper Brexit deal is effected, it means that once more the UK can make its own laws, police its own borders and make its own decisions about immigration in terms of whom we are prepared to admit. People of value will be welcome. Freeloaders looking to live off benefits will not be. We will be free to trade with the rest of the world on terms beneficial to us and our trading partners without being hamstrung by EU rules and regulations designed to rein us in and benefit the 'big two', Germany and France.

I could write a book about this but I'll leave it there for now. I'll just say to the Remoaners that, if you think the EU is so great, why don't you just fuck off and live there and leave the rest of us to enjoy life in Britain the way it should be.

I take it you are not a fan then ???

 

[CroJack]

When we joined it was to be part of an ECONOMIC trading partnership (European Economic Community) but it has now morphed from an economic community to a POLITICAL entity, which aspires to become a European Superstate. I emphasise that the people at the top were NOT elected by the people, they are NOT answerable to the people and the people have no legal way of removing them no matter how corrupt, inefficient or incompetent they are. They live life on the hog with vast salaries, massive expenses packages, first class travel/hotels and countless perks, ALL OF WHICH ARE RIPPED FROM THE TAXPAYER'S POCKETS.

That's the main reason I am and always have been against EU. It's already difficult - actually almost impossible - for ordinary people to have some kind of control over national governments who are controlled by domestic elite (banksters, huge corporations, billionaires etc.).

The question is how much of UK 'troubles' is generated by EU and how much of it by domestic policy. I found this on Twitter and any comments would be appreciated.


"You know what our problem is, in Britain?

It's this little lot.

1. The unelected House of Lords outnumbers the Commons for the first time in 550 years.

2. Worldwide, only Britain and Iran automatically grant religious leaders a place in parliament.

3. 90% of the judiciary come from the same 5% of schools

4. London gets 24 times as much public infrastructure spending PER PERSON as the North.

5. Five British individuals own as much as the poorest 12 million of us.

6. At least £33 billion a year is lost to tax evasion.

7. 100% of our national newspapers are owned by Russian mafia, tax evaders or pornographers.

8. We're the only European nation that doesn't own any of it's railways, water or power companies.

9. Only 138 constituencies actually matter, because the other 500 are essentially rotten boroughs which never change hands no matter how you vote.

10. Our electoral system is designed to prevent new parties from entering it

11. We have the greatest inequality in Europe, costing the economy an estimated £39bn per year, or £1400 per person

12. Since 2010 £225bn has been cut from public spending

13. Since 2010 the richest 1000 individuals have increased their wealth by £225bn

14. This is supposed to be a coincidence

15. 90% of Northern Europe's poorest regions are in the UK

16. More members of the cabinet attended the same private school than have used the NHS in the last decade

17. 70% of new jobs since 2010 have been casual or freelance, with average earnings £16,500 below the average full-time permanent job

18. The "minimum wage" is less than the minimum required to survive

19. Of our last 6 Prime Ministers, only 2 got the job by winning a majority at a general election

20. The last 4 governments won absolute power with the vote of less than 30% of voters, and less than 25% of the electorate

21. We sell arms to Israel (44 years in breach of UN resolutions) and Saudi Arabia (still flog women for driving and hang homosexuals)

22. UK tax code is 17,000 pages long, custom-made to hide every possible trick for the rich to evade and avoid tax

23. Homes are taxed, but land isn't; so if you own a tiny flat you pay more tax than a man who owns 1 million acres and is just sitting on it, forcing your rent to rise

24. Half of people under 30 will never be able to afford their own home

25. The richest 10% of UK household wealth is 315 times greater than the poorest 10% of UK household wealth.

In 1950 you could afford a 3 bedroom house and car in London on the equivalent household income of £25,000. Today you need £430,000.

26. UK corporate law actively encourages directors to asset-strip businesses rather than invest in them over the long term

27. We are cutting education budgets per pupil whilst every G20 country (bar USA) is increasing them: so we have too few skills, and too many low paid jobs

I should correct this, it's been bothering me. Intended to say "tax avoiders", not "tax evaders".

Before you get too high and mighty about this, very little of it happened overnight, or is the sole responsibility of one government or party. It's just the abject position we've got ourselves into. We are ludicrous."

His point is that none of this is caused by EU.

 

[CroJack]

I am surprised that most immigrants in UK come from China and Spain.

​

 

[ivoralljack]

I take it you are not a fan then ???

No I am not. But we'll not get the Brexit we should have had because of the innocents who were duped into voting for Corbyn at the last election. It's also not helped by the fact that Theresa May is a closet Remainer and probably quite likes the idea of a tepid deal. Imo, she's a Judas who should be kicked out on her arse and the reins passed to someone who would properly represent the views of the majority. It's probably too late for that now but I'd rather walk away on a no deal basis than accept that ludicrous compromise called the Chequers Agreement. Boris and David Davis correctly recognised it for the disgraceful capitulation it is and left the Government. We have been sold out and will regret it.

 

[ivoralljack]

CJ, the very length of the Twitter points preclude me from making any comment here. As a matter of fact, I agree with a lot of them but it is a fact of life that there will always be an imbalance in any form of society. Utopia doesn't exist and there is much wrong with this country that could do with putting right. I neither have the time, the inclination or the ability to do anything about it, so I ride with it as do most others. The other end of the spectrum is communism but I don't think that anyone wants that. Communism has repeatedly been shown not to work so often in so many countries that it's not even worth debating. And it's as well to remember that Communism is the most exclusive form of Capitalism that has ever existed.

As for Brexit, nothing that anyone can say will ever make me change my stance on it. I prefer not to have political discussion on here as passions are so easily inflamed and this is as close as I want to get. I believe in tolerance but certain subjects push me hard, so I'd rather avoid them by respecting other peoples' opinions without necessarily agreeing with them.

 

[Borini]

No I am not. But we'll not get the Brexit we should have had because of the innocents who were duped into voting for Corbyn at the last election. It's also not helped by the fact that Theresa May is a closet Remainer and probably quite likes the idea of a tepid deal. Imo, she's a Judas who should be kicked out on her arse and the reins passed to someone who would properly represent the views of the majority. It's probably too late for that now but I'd rather walk away on a no deal basis than accept that ludicrous compromise called the Chequers Agreement. Boris and David Davis correctly recognised it for the disgraceful capitulation it is and left the Government. We have been sold out and will regret it.

Ivor, my comment was tongue in cheek!!!
These scoundrels are supposed to represent US in parliament. They only look after their own noses in the trough.

 

[ivoralljack]

Ivor, my comment was tongue in cheek!!!
These scoundrels are supposed to represent US in parliament. They only look after their own noses in the trough.

I did realise that but took the opportunity to jump on my soapbox again. No more though. The subject upsets me.

 

[Ladygargar]

At least we can all agree that anyone with an ambition to be a politician should automatically be disbarred - I have no time for them as a group there are a few good ones out there but as a profession it attracts more egomaniacs than philanthropists - and what is it about politicians and sex??? They are obsessed I’m surprised they manage to sign their own expenses cheques with one hand consistently up someone’s skirt down someone’s pants or occupied elsewhere roving porn sites and the like; it’s a full time job on its own

 

[CroJack]

I did realise that but took the opportunity to jump on my soapbox again. No more though. The subject upsets me.

Agreed, no need to discuss politics here.

 

[Jackflash]

Just like to say we never asked them for any agreements when we liberated them all in 1945.

 

[ivoralljack]

Just like to say we never asked them for any agreements when we liberated them all in 1945.

Well us and the much maligned Yanks. Fair play, we'd never have done it without them.

 

[Ladygargar]

Just like to say we never asked them for any agreements when we liberated them all in 1945.

They have my grandfather buried in their once occupied land - he made the ultimate sacrifice

 

[Jackflash]

What a balls up this has become ! Two years on and we're in a worse negotiable state now than then,with the EU still dictating the terms. Questions are now coming to the fore that should have been resolved before any referendum took place.It seems no-one in the UK government had any idea what problems would arise regarding an exit. Are we to assume the Northern Ireland border problem has only just popped its head up.Our MP's went into this blind, anyone who's been in business knows that you have to ensure all the I's have been dotted and the T's crossed before going into finalising a transaction. I think Cameron could foresee the problems and jumped ship. We are now left with May looking a fool to all the Euro Countries., and heaven help us if Corbyn took over the reigns.

 

[ivoralljack]

The problem is that the Conservatives appointed a "Remainer" as PM. Her heart has never been in it and I think that she has always been heading for a compromise which, unfortunately, the EU seized on to bully her. They are frantic in their efforts to dilute our Brexit, scared to death that if we became successful outside the Union, WHICH WE WOULD, other EU member states would probably follow suit. And the resultant chaos would mean the end of the EU: which would mean an end to endless red tape, an end to the gravy train, an end to corruption, an end to free movement, an end to EU laws dictating to other countries how to run their affairs and an end to the crooked, unelected officials who live a life of luxury at OUR expense.

No, there is no way that the EU will allow us to leave without making it as difficult as possible and Theresa May has neither the ability nor the inclination to fight back on our behalf. We can only hope that Boris, Dominic Rabb or David Davis and the like, can salvage something from this unholy mess. If they can't then Corbyn will be licking his Commie lips and God help us if he gets in.

 

[Jackflash]

As I write this May is running around Europe like a headless chicken meeting various leaders attempting to get support when she can't even get support from her own government. Juncker has made it loud and clear today there will definitely be no further concessions,so what does she hopes to gain by this time and money wasting exercise other than making an utter fool of herself.She has deferred the government vote,nothing more than delaying the inevitable.
In the meantime France's Macron due to the violence has promised to increase the minimum wage and raise tax concessions in the coming year, something we will surely contribute to if we stay in. Those old enough to remember us joining the Common Market under Heath will remember how we were heavily subsidising Europe's butter mountains and Frances wine lakes a very short time after joining.

 

[ivoralljack]

Aye, the biggest con of all time. We thought we were joining an economic (trading) bloc in the EEC. There was no hint to the general public that the whole thing would morph into an attempt to form a political European 'Super State'.