Boom to Bust?

Jackflash

Midfield General
Staff member
I've mentioned this before, in the 60's I would meet Herbie Williams two or three times a week at the 76 Port Tennant bus stop at David Evans on the Princess Way. Me finishing work, him from training. Neither of us even owned a car then. Me as a plant fitter /operator, Herbie a professional footballer,we were both on equal pay of £19 a week before deductions. Actually if i put in a couple of hours overtime I would earn more than him. Unbelievable how the wage structure has changed over the years.
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
We can't trust football club boards to do the right thing with the savings by cutting players' wages.
Either ring fence the cash for distribution to lower league clubs, or leave it to the superstars to follow their consciences.
Reading today that the big clubs are applying for Government funds (in other words taxpayers/PUBLIC money) to pay their support staff rather than cut the telephone number salaries of the so-called big stars to pay them. Unbelievable and downright disgusting!!! :mad:

Fans and supporters have long memories and the divide between us and the clubs/players is increasing daily. Spurs is a typical example and others, supported by union leader, Gordon Taylor on a £2 million a year salary, are dragging their heels to an embarrassing degree.

It is my fervent hope that this virus all but destroys football so the game can begin again on a sensible and sustaining course.
 

KVetch

Key Player
I can't believe the players would agree to those cuts in wages. I don't see it ever changing in the right direction. But this is a very strange situation. I read the book The Club awhile back it's nothing new just that the top clubs conspired with American football guys and OJ Simpson of all people helped form the Premier.

What would you like to see? A wage limit on players and executives? I hate that the top clubs conspire to stay on top. How long do we have to wait for another Leicester City. The TV payments are stacked in their favor. I hate the plastic fans who support the top 6.

I like the romantic notion of every English village and hamlet having a club. The theory that any National League team could advance to the top. Homegrown players playing for their city. Traveling to other cities to chant and support your local club in god awful rain and cold. Celebrating or ruminating at the pub after a match.

In North Korea they have organized football matches where the squads are made up of factory workers or workers from a local group of workers. Granted it's a horrible place to live but at least they do one thing right.
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
Borrowed liberally from Mark Irwin's excellent article where he echoes much of my thoughts. For much of the time, despite many individual footballers 'doing their bit' for charity, collectively there's no doubt they've been dragging their heels. They have been coming across like Goodfellas mob boss Paulie leaning on struggling businesses:

"Business is bad? Fuck you, pay me!
"Oh, you had a fire? Fuck you, pay me!
"Been too sick to work? Fuck you, pay me!"

That odious twerp Gordon Taylor has been fighting tooth and nail to protect players' wages, no doubt in a parallel effort to protect his own megabucks salary of £2 million per annum. But he is helping to alienate his members with the general public who are sick to the teeth of seeing 'entitled', over-privileged, overpaid prima donnas getting a free luxury ride in life just for kicking a ball. Most of the outstanding money from TV is used to pay players' wages NOT to lower prices for fans; NOT to improve the grounds; NOT to improve facilities for fans; NOT to put the clubs on a more secure financial position to avoid more teams like Bury and, shortly, perhaps Bolton, losing their very existence.

But after years of living beyond its means, football's day of reckoning is coming much sooner than anyone bargained for and, being honest, there will be no tears shed by me if that happens.
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
Been reading that where footballers will accept less pay this will be in the form of deferred wages as opposed to outright cuts: which of course means that they hope/expect to get this money back down the line.

This might or might not happen but the sense I get from reading a great deal about the future of football is that the gravy train is coming to an end. It has been shown that the ridiculous (I regard them as outright obscene) wages that the clubs pay their players in relation to income, is placing the very existence of some clubs in dire jeopardy. This pandemic has been a wakeup call to these clubs imo and I believe that the era of megabucks wages is about to be consigned to history.

Apart from the common sense aspect that will drive this decision, I think the general public have become sick and tired of the ridiculous sums that are awash in football. £150 million pounds for ONE fucking footballer and his agent? What would that buy for the NHS? Gareth Bale earns £650,000 A WEEK and there are many others like him such as Messi, Ronaldo who earn more in a week than most people can dream of.

An average wage-earner on say £500 weekly would take 26 YEARS to earn what Bale does in a week. In just 3 weeks, players on such wages will earn what the average worker does in a LIFETIME!! And they get this money for the length of their contract irrespective of whether they play or not.

I appreciate that my example quotes players at the top end of the pay scale but I'm sure you get my drift. But it should be remembered that the level they are at filters down the line to lesser players who, in turn, demand far higher wages than they are actually worth. Also, on top of sky-high wages, players also get paid for image rights, product endorsements, advertising and public appearances etc etc. And don't get me started on agents whom I regard as nothing more than parasitical vermin.

I do understand that many high earners in football are doing good things during this crisis many of whom are donating large sums of money to fight the virus. So well done and a BIG thank you to them for that. But, in general terms, football has to cut its cloth properly in the future and scale down drastically on the money it spends on transfer fees and wages. Failure to do this will see the end of football as we know it.
 

KVetch

Key Player
Been reading that where footballers will accept less pay this will be in the form of deferred wages as opposed to outright cuts: which of course means that they hope/expect to get this money back down the line.

This might or might not happen but the sense I get from reading a great deal about the future of football is that the gravy train is coming to an end. It has been shown that the ridiculous (I regard them as outright obscene) wages that the clubs pay their players in relation to income, is placing the very existence of some clubs in dire jeopardy. This pandemic has been a wakeup call to these clubs imo and I believe that the era of megabucks wages is about to be consigned to history.

Apart from the common sense aspect that will drive this decision, I think the general public have become sick and tired of the ridiculous sums that are awash in football. £150 million pounds for ONE fucking footballer and his agent? What would that buy for the NHS? Gareth Bale earns £650,000 A WEEK and there are many others like him such as Messi, Ronaldo who earn more in a week than most people can dream of.

An average wage-earner on say £500 weekly would take 26 YEARS to earn what Bale does in a week. In just 3 weeks, players on such wages will earn what the average worker does in a LIFETIME!! And they get this money for the length of their contract irrespective of whether they play or not.

I appreciate that my example quotes players at the top end of the pay scale but I'm sure you get my drift. But it should be remembered that the level they are at filters down the line to lesser players who, in turn, demand far higher wages than they are actually worth. Also, on top of sky-high wages, players also get paid for image rights, product endorsements, advertising and public appearances etc etc. And don't get me started on agents whom I regard as nothing more than parasitical vermin.

I do understand that many high earners in football are doing good things during this crisis many of whom are donating large sums of money to fight the virus. So well done and a BIG thank you to them for that. But, in general terms, football has to cut its cloth properly in the future and scale down drastically on the money it spends on transfer fees and wages. Failure to do this will see the end of football as we know it.
Sadio Mane is a good example, those guys that build schools and hospitals where they need them. The clubs and owners in power would resist any kind of cap or limit. The top 6 want to maintain their hold on power or threaten to start a super league again. Which is actually a tempting idea, what would football look like without the top 5 or 6 clubs. The parity would give the lesser clubs a chance to win a trophy. I hope that never happens and don't believe it will, it's interesting to think on.

I can see wages taking a dive without any income coming in. But there are always going to be mega rich billionaires who will throw millions on players to win. I feel like any dip in wages would be temporary until the ball gets rolling again and football returns. Maybe I'm wrong.

Do you think any changes should be made e.g. a wage limit? Would it ruin football? Would you do something more drastic.

The FA has already shown they are fine with letting clubs fold like Bury and Bolton. I hope that doesn't happen again. But it's inevitable, some clubs are already in distress and a few £'s won't be enough.

I agree that wages are way too high and agents rank somewhere in the vicinity of lawyers.
 

Jackflash

Midfield General
Staff member
I dont think a wage limit would be a bad idea, It would probably sort out those that genuinely want to play for the club from those that along with their agents want to screw the club for every penny they can, which in turn fall back on the fan.. The following are the earnings of the top four.last season.
1/Messi £102 Million
Ronaldo £ 87.6 Million
Neymar £84 Million
Pogba £26.5 Million
Totalling over £300 Million on just four players a year.
And Messi, not content with that amount, along with his father tried to swindle their tax authority.
If a agent approached a club with those wage demands, he should be told politely to f#ck off..And if all the world top clubs adhered to that it would result in a wage drop. So who do we blame,is it the player/agent for the demand or do we blame the club for paying it. It can be asked if FIFA could or should intrvene. FIFA who describes itself as a non profit organisation, but unfortunately not as a non corrupt organisation, any decisions made by them can be taken with a pinch of salt. There are a few more Sepp Blatters in there to be weeded out yet.
I think players and agents will continue to run the show until in the uk alone the FA shows some backbone and some respect for fans, who without there would be no professional footall.
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
I really give up on the greed and stupidity of many football players - and some clubs are as bad as them. It seems now that players will NOT accept wage cuts only deferral of wages - which means they get paid anyway down the line. In other words, they give up fuck all. Thing is, clubs will lose a tremendous amount of money due to Covid and its after effects and many will not be able to afford the astronomical wages they have been paying.

Many clubs face extinction. FACT! Even some of the bigger clubs are threatened. Don't these idiot footballers understand that if a club fails they'll get fuck all, contract or no contract? It seems not because many are still demanding their money irrespective; rabidly backed by Gordon Taylor the highest paid Union official in the world earning £2.3 million per annum from arguably the smallest Union in the world.

Covid 19 is causing a world wide depression - not a recession but a full blown DEPRESSION the like of which no one will ever have experienced before. Money is going to be in short supply from the general public, the consumers. DOWN will go the demand for club kits and merchandise, match tickets, Sky/BT/television subscriptions etc etc etc. People will now, more than ever, have to focus on obtaining and paying for the essentials of life such as food, rent, mortgages, heating, fuel, clothing and family commitments and so on. As much as we all love football, it is NOT an essential, so the pipeline of seemingly never-ending cash flowing into football's coffers is quickly going to dry up. And the public, battling and scrapping to pay their bills each week, will become ever more resentful of pampered divas earning their lifetime wages in a couple of months or so.

Yet, what do I read today? Real Madrid are preparing a bid for Liverpool's Sadio Mane this summer. The price? Liverpool would expect to get £150 MILLION for the player and would then attempt to sign Kylian Mbappe to replace Mane by throwing ANOTHER £100 million on top making him worth £250 million!! Are they nuts?! Will they EVER learn????? Mbappe earns £400,000 A WEEK. Liverpool rationalise paying him this because they have a £100 million kit deal with Nike. But Nike aren't immune from the effects of a recession either and might well be forced to reconsider their position when customers, faced with paying essential bills and fighting to keep body and soul together, understandably might well balk at paying Nike £100 or more for a pair of fucking trainers!! Think about it.

Personally, I feel that the good times for players, agents and clubs are coming to an end and many good judges in the game seem to agree with this. Can't say I'm sorry because I'm not. It's about time the game was handed back where it belongs - to we the supporters.
 

Jackflash

Midfield General
Staff member
I really give up on the greed and stupidity of many football players - and some clubs are as bad as them. It seems now that players will NOT accept wage cuts only deferral of wages - which means they get paid anyway down the line. In other words, they give up fuck all. Thing is, clubs will lose a tremendous amount of money due to Covid and its after effects and many will not be able to afford the astronomical wages they have been paying.

Many clubs face extinction. FACT! Even some of the bigger clubs are threatened. Don't these idiot footballers understand that if a club fails they'll get fuck all, contract or no contract? It seems not because many are still demanding their money irrespective; rabidly backed by Gordon Taylor the highest paid Union official in the world earning £2.3 million per annum from arguably the smallest Union in the world.

Covid 19 is causing a world wide depression - not a recession but a full blown DEPRESSION the like of which no one will ever have experienced before. Money is going to be in short supply from the general public, the consumers. DOWN will go the demand for club kits and merchandise, match tickets, Sky/BT/television subscriptions etc etc etc. People will now, more than ever, have to focus on obtaining and paying for the essentials of life such as food, rent, mortgages, heating, fuel, clothing and family commitments and so on. As much as we all love football, it is NOT an essential, so the pipeline of seemingly never-ending cash flowing into football's coffers is quickly going to dry up. And the public, battling and scrapping to pay their bills each week, will become ever more resentful of pampered divas earning their lifetime wages in a couple of months or so.

Yet, what do I read today? Real Madrid are preparing a bid for Liverpool's Sadio Mane this summer. The price? Liverpool would expect to get £150 MILLION for the player and would then attempt to sign Kylian Mbappe to replace Mane by throwing ANOTHER £100 million on top making him worth £250 million!! Are they nuts?! Will they EVER learn????? Mbappe earns £400,000 A WEEK. Liverpool rationalise paying him this because they have a £100 million kit deal with Nike. But Nike aren't immune from the effects of a recession either and might well be forced to reconsider their position when customers, faced with paying essential bills and fighting to keep body and soul together, understandably might well balk at paying Nike £100 or more for a pair of fucking trainers!! Think about it.

Personally, I feel that the good times for players, agents and clubs are coming to an end and many good judges in the game seem to agree with this. Can't say I'm sorry because I'm not. It's about time the game was handed back where it belongs - to we the supporters.
Well said Ivor(y)(y)
 

CroJack

Key Player
Real Madrid are preparing a bid for Liverpool's Sadio Mane this summer. The price? Liverpool would expect to get £150 MILLION for the player
So, if I understand correctly, Real Madrid have £150 m for Mane, but they don't have enough money to pay three months wages to their players during this crisis? Something stinks here. The same with Liverpool. They've made a record high profit and signed a record breaking Nike sponsorship, but they wanted the British government (read British tax payers) to pay 80 % of their players wages? Wait a minute, why on earth would players give up on their wages whilst the club owners don't want to give up on their profits? None of the clubs who have been run in a sustainable manner will go down just because there aren't any football matches being played for a couple of months. The clubs who have gambled with revenue to wages ratio should go down.

I agree there will be less money in football for a while, but next season we'll be back in business - this crisis won't last forever, the world economy will recover, people will go to football matches again...
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
I agree there will be less money in football for a while, but next season we'll be back in business - this crisis won't last forever, the world economy will recover, people will go to football matches again...
True but some clubs might well go to the wall in the meantime. And I think that those still in business will consider long and hard about what they pay A) in transfer fees and B) the scale of the wages they are prepared to pay. Joe Public will also have a view seeing how both clubs and players have behaved during this crisis.
 

CroJack

Key Player
True but some clubs might well go to the wall in the meantime. And I think that those still in business will consider long and hard about what they pay A) in transfer fees and B) the scale of the wages they are prepared to pay. Joe Public will also have a view seeing how both clubs and players have behaved during this crisis.
Those clubs who might get to the wall won't fill out bankruptcy forms because of not being able to pay for three months players' wages, but because they have been operating on the brink of insolvency. Nobody has forced them to have 85% revenue to wages ratio and no cash reserves. Nobody has forced them to gamble and pay stupid money for players they can't afford. Nobody has forced them to run unsustainable business.

I agree with you that wages being payed to football players are not fair compared to the wages of doctors, nurses, and many others who work hard. But saying all that, we live in a world of pop culture and consumerism. What good does Kim Kardashian do for the humanity? Or pop stars? Or so called reality celebrities? Or Wall Street sharks? Football players at least promote a healthy life for the kids around the world.

I really don't think we should moan about the players wages as long as we as supporters feed the chain of events and as long clubs can afford such wages. That's a free market. We give £200 for Nike trainers, we subscribe to Sky sports channels, we buy clubs merchandise, and we buy season tickets. When this crisis is over, Joe Public will forget it, and he will continue to support the football industry. Nobody forces Joe Public to support Man United, Man City, Liverpool, Real Madrid etc., there are many local amateur clubs worth of our support. I hope we won't see £100m transfers in future and £500.000 a week wages, but I doubt it.
 
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ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
A further consequence that I've heard about from many sources is that the days of the 'Fat Cat' agents could also be numbered. Some of these parasites cream off anything up to £20 million, or indeed even more, from some deals and it will be a Hallelujah day if they are ever forced out of our game. For now I'll settle for this vermin having their powers, and their earnings, greatly curtailed to allow more money to stay in football.
 

ivoralljack

Grizzled Veteran
Staff member
Tonight's news saying that the coming depression will be the worst since that of the 1920s. Unemployment will double to over 10% with some 2 million out of work partly as a consequence of so many companies going bankrupt. Meantime the economy will shrink to a level lower than in living memory. Forecasts from savvy financial people predict that it will take a GENERATION for the UK to return to its present level. With public spending power so drastically reduced, the cash flow into football will be similarly affected. Grim times for us all and footballers will see their gravy train come to an abrupt end. Mind you, many of the present lot will survive quite comfortably from the fortunes they've already banked. Unlike the rest of us!!
 

CroJack

Key Player
Some financial people say we'll recover faster than after the 2008 financial markets meltdown, and I don't see why not. The governments around the world won't keep their countries in a complete lockdown for more than three months, and Taiwan has proved that you can do both: keep the economy running and fighting the virus. Taiwan has 24 m population, it's 80 miles away from China, it has 263 active cases and 6 deaths.

Already after one month of the epidemic more and more European countries are starting to normalise everyday life. Austria, Denmark, Island, Norway, Germany...even Spain. The rest will follow in May and June.

I'm pretty sure the rest of the games in Britain will be played behind closed doors, probably in late June and July, and the clubs will get their TV money. The next season will start in late August or early September, and the stadiums will be full again.
 
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