Yankee_Jack
Key Player
I’m always suspect of a person that stakes a claim of being the “world’s best” at anything. If they’re so bloody good it should be self-evident and wouldn’t need to be stated.
Corona virus
- Thread starter CroJack
- Start date
But it's not Johnson's claim. He is no expert and is only passing on the advice he has received from his own scientists. So who is right? Who do we believe?
This man is Prime Minister, the top of the tree. Any facts that he sees to be relevant news to the British public should be verified first, before he stands in front of a TV camera and spouts so called facts, or keep his mouth shut, but no, he sees it as brownie points for him and his government, maybe he should stand in front of a camera and explain to the British public how and why we have the highest death toll to population ratio in the world, explain to people how thousands of their love ones died due to the initial inept handling of the crisis by his government. There are facts to prove that.
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CroJack
Key Player
We have to ease the lockdown no matter what. Lockdowns don't make sense anymore.
Now we know much more about this virus: who is at risk, who dies from it, and how many die from it.
We, who are at risk, have to protect ourselves as much as possible but we must not hold the younger generations hostages. Young people are not killers if they want to party. Kids have to go to school, and healthy people have to go to work.
I have decided to live my life in full and take the risk. I meet my children regularly and hug them. I don't want to wear a mask because I want to breath normally, and I am not afraid anymore of the crowded places outdoors. Why? Because you won't be infected if you are not indoors where there isn't enough air flow and where there are many people breathing and exaling the virus.
With other words, I don't want to live the rest of my life in fear. This world is full of risks, and Covid-19 makes it a little bit a riskier place to live.
In my opinion, Johnson is now making another crucial mistake in his approach to Covid-19. First he reacted too late and now he has become obsessed with a mass hysteria and political correctness. It is important to understand that the number of infections is not proportional with the number of deaths. But the number of infections among the old and vulnerable IS proportional with the number of deaths. Instead of wasting enormous resurces on lockdowns protecting those who are not at risk of dying, and don't need any protection, we can use much less money to shield nursing homes and hospitals. If we insist on continuous lockdowns the collateral damage will be enormous.
No doubt the early lockdowns in the beginning of this pandemic were justified. We didn't know what was going on in China, and the videos coming from there were terrifying. Who on earth can trust a country known to hide things? The videos and intel coming out from China were bad enough but the whole world thought that the whole situation must have been even worse. Then the number of deaths exploded in Italy and Spain. Now we know why these two countries (and later the UK, Belgium and Sweden) have had so many deaths. They simply allowed the virus to spread within the health system and nursing homes. On top of that they have panicked and excesively used invasive treatments on Covid-19 patients. They have killed thousands by simply intubating them when it wasn't necessary. Also, Lombardy is one of the most populated, oldest and polluted areas in the whole world.
Denmark has opened pretty early after a one month of lockdown. The result? Two people out of 5.800.000 in intensive care unit right now. Two. No masks to be seen anywhere, people are on the beaches and in the public parks, restaurants and coffee shops are full with people, even metro and trains are crowded. Already in April we sent the children to schools, and many predicted the surge of new cases. It hasn't happened.
This man is talking sense. He is not downplaying the danger of Covid-19 but he is asking the right questions.
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Yankee_Jack
Key Player
Younger people are just as subject to being infected and to carrying active virus and infecting others as any older group. In fact, we are finding in the USA that younger people can be hyper carriers and as a result hyper infectors. Children May Carry Coronavirus at High Levels, Study Finds
Recently in Georgia, a summer camp reopened, and despite taking the precautions advocated and required by the State some 76% of the minors were infected within two days. The camp of course shutdown. The Coronavirus Infected Hundreds at a Georgia Summer Camp. It should be noted while being in compliance with State directives, the camp was not not in compliance with CDC guidelines. A problem with communication depth, breath and consistency
Lock-down is the common sense approach to contain and resolve the detonation of a hot-spot. The challenge is getting people and business to operate in a way that hot-spots do not detonate, consistently, rigorously, and without the need to assert authority and levy sanctions .... but if a good ass-kicking is what it takes then so be it. For whatever reason, ideological idiocy, careless disregard for others' well being or their own, laziness, or just basic shit for brains, there are people that don't get it, and refuse to get it. They place themselves and more importantly others at risk. This is a disease that carries the risk of serious residual insults regardless of how mild the initial infection is ... does anybody ordinarily healthy want to end up with lungs that have the efficiency of a coal minor or an asbestos worker. Bottom-line - you don't want to catch this. If you live, the Russian roulette of residuals may not be kind.
Recently in Georgia, a summer camp reopened, and despite taking the precautions advocated and required by the State some 76% of the minors were infected within two days. The camp of course shutdown. The Coronavirus Infected Hundreds at a Georgia Summer Camp. It should be noted while being in compliance with State directives, the camp was not not in compliance with CDC guidelines. A problem with communication depth, breath and consistency
Lock-down is the common sense approach to contain and resolve the detonation of a hot-spot. The challenge is getting people and business to operate in a way that hot-spots do not detonate, consistently, rigorously, and without the need to assert authority and levy sanctions .... but if a good ass-kicking is what it takes then so be it. For whatever reason, ideological idiocy, careless disregard for others' well being or their own, laziness, or just basic shit for brains, there are people that don't get it, and refuse to get it. They place themselves and more importantly others at risk. This is a disease that carries the risk of serious residual insults regardless of how mild the initial infection is ... does anybody ordinarily healthy want to end up with lungs that have the efficiency of a coal minor or an asbestos worker. Bottom-line - you don't want to catch this. If you live, the Russian roulette of residuals may not be kind.
Well I'm doing my bit to kickstart the economy! 
Took my daughter to a MaccyD last night and had a good feast - Big Mac, Double cheeseburger, 2 x chilli chicken wraps, 2 x large fries, a coke and a large banana milk shake, all for £6.63. Social distancing was impeccable and the hygiene routine was really thorough. Understandably service was slower than usual but, after we placed our order at the screen, we were served at the table. Excellent!
Took my daughter to a MaccyD last night and had a good feast - Big Mac, Double cheeseburger, 2 x chilli chicken wraps, 2 x large fries, a coke and a large banana milk shake, all for £6.63. Social distancing was impeccable and the hygiene routine was really thorough. Understandably service was slower than usual but, after we placed our order at the screen, we were served at the table. Excellent!
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
An economic barometer .... annualized US GDP crashed 33% last quarter .... McDonalds’ revenue crashed 30%, which is a global measure. Implies Football clubs going skint really quick.
Yet United are considering Jadon Sancho for north of £100 million and I read talk of £220k a week on a 5 year contract. Given how Ozil is bleeding Arsenal dry when not even in the squad, it makes you wonder if football is being run my imbeciles.
I think clubs don't have anyone competent to deal with these agents, they need to adapt a more take it or leave it attitude with players and agents, also a lot more clauses written into contracts.. As you say Ivor with Ozil at Arsenal its been player and agent calling the shots.
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
Top EPL clubs are going to be the exception. First, EPL clubs will continue to have media revenue that outstrips their match day revenue by a long way. Second, United in particular, have commercial revenue engines and global customer base to sell into. Clubs like Leicester, Fulham etc not so much.
CroJack
Key Player
There isn't much common sense in lockdowns that really aren't lockdowns. Does it make sense to you forcing the whole Leicester area into a lockdown whilst at the same time thousands of people freely entering the UK from abroad unckecked? We see such lockdowns all over the world and they are ineffective.
The only effective lockdown is the one New Zealand have implemented. They have closed the country for a couple of months and shut the borders. Since the start of the pandemic all people entering New Zealand have been forced to go into 14 days quarantine. And they are not allowed to leave the quarantine as long as the result of the test isn't negative. Twice. Now people in New Zealand live a completely normal life.
The epidemic in New Zealand has lasted for two months. The epidemic in the rest of the world is going to last at least for...who knows? See what is happening in the US, Spain, France etc. Their false lockdowns don't work and they have as many newly infected as in the very beginning of this pandemic.
In March, New Zealand decided to beat the virus, the rest of the world decided to "flatten the curve".
"Flattening the curve" is a definition of a defeat. And instead of blaming people, who have had enough of the continuously false lockdowns and ambigous messages from the health authorities, for breaching the social distancing rules, we should be blaming our politicians and health authorities for the lack of a proper response to the pandemic. People in Britain have shown during the first couple of months of the "lockdown" that they can obey the rules and cooperate with the British government. But, then, the Johnson's top adviser and Ferguson, who is one of the leading epidemiologists, broke the social distancing rules.
Joseph de Maistre once said:
"Every nation gets the government it deserves."
Here is what CroJack says:
"Every government gets the nation it deserves."
That's why I wouldn call the people who are relaxing now, after months of imprisonment, "the twats".
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
Lock-downs have been effective in more places than NZ. China, Barbados, BVI (now an embargo on returning people with work permits), and so on. NYC, NJ and CT were regionally hot 4 months ago and now in CT we're down to <1% daily new infection rate. Meanwhile other states that didn't go to school on the NYC, NJ, CT situation, and where the concept of a lock-down was, and in some cases still is, a term to run away from, have exploded.
When we are talking about containing hot-spots, lock-downs do make sense because you need to contain the spread and let the hot-spot burn out. The challenge is executing the lock-down and defining its terms and conditions - easier said than done based on geography, border porosity, government diligence and the willingness to assert authority and sanction . But, just because national government stumbles around with head-up-arse syndrome doesn't mean that lock-downs are not effective; they clearly are. In Florida, the Governor has his head bunged up his rear end, and is allowing schools to be opened with no specific guidance. County leaders, on the other hand, are ignoring the Governor and asserting local authority to provide clarity, guidance and protocols, performing virtual schooling to the extent possible. There are degrees of lock-down.
When we are talking about containing hot-spots, lock-downs do make sense because you need to contain the spread and let the hot-spot burn out. The challenge is executing the lock-down and defining its terms and conditions - easier said than done based on geography, border porosity, government diligence and the willingness to assert authority and sanction . But, just because national government stumbles around with head-up-arse syndrome doesn't mean that lock-downs are not effective; they clearly are. In Florida, the Governor has his head bunged up his rear end, and is allowing schools to be opened with no specific guidance. County leaders, on the other hand, are ignoring the Governor and asserting local authority to provide clarity, guidance and protocols, performing virtual schooling to the extent possible. There are degrees of lock-down.
CroJack
Key Player
@Yankee_Jack , New Zealand is just an example.
The lockdowns you are talking about are local lockdowns within a country. They are effective to an extent but they are not and can't be totally effective as long as the country (state) borders are open.
I have just read that Ryan Air had over four million passangers in July. All whilst pandemic is pretty much alive in Europe. Does the local lockdowns make any sense?
My daughter came home yesterday from New Zealand via Adelaide and Dubai. None of the passengers from her flight were checked, tested or quarantined. Meanwhile we have a hotspot in Danish town Ringsted because the meat plant there employed a bunch of Polish workers who have never been tested on the Danish border. Since the pandemic started Denmark have had a more less open border with Sweden. And we all know how relaxed Sweden has been when it comes to this virus. In the past four months over two hundred thousand Danes have returned to Danmark without being checked or put into quarantine. I mean, the government is making fool of all of us who have strictly followed all the epidemiological rules during the one of the most strict lockdowns in the world in March and April. And what is the result of our government's foolish approach? These days we have the same infection rate like in March. It's same in Spain, Germany, France and other European countries.
Do we really expect people to applaud the new lockdowns? Especially when the death and hospitalisation rate doesn't follow the infection rate? People aren't stupid.
The WHO and American CDC officials are telling us now that we we will never get rid of this virus. With other words, we have to accept continous lockdowns, masks and restrictions. Really? How come that New Zealand (and couple of other countries you mentioned in your post) have got rid of it? It can be done and it could and should have been done in March and April. But our politicians decided to flatten the curve and allow the virus to live among us. And now it's too late. Our economies can survive one short lockdown but not many of them. Collateral damage is going to be high: economies devastated, unemployment, mental health significantly worsened, suicides, social benefits cut to the bone (if any), young generations in dispair, wearing masks is going to be a rule, domestic abuse, alcohol and drug addiction increased...
Too many people will die from other diseases that are not being treated properly or not treated at all during the lockdowns.
In March we could have chosen New Zealand model, and now we have only one model left - the Swedish model. Everything else is a joke.
The lockdowns you are talking about are local lockdowns within a country. They are effective to an extent but they are not and can't be totally effective as long as the country (state) borders are open.
I have just read that Ryan Air had over four million passangers in July. All whilst pandemic is pretty much alive in Europe. Does the local lockdowns make any sense?
My daughter came home yesterday from New Zealand via Adelaide and Dubai. None of the passengers from her flight were checked, tested or quarantined. Meanwhile we have a hotspot in Danish town Ringsted because the meat plant there employed a bunch of Polish workers who have never been tested on the Danish border. Since the pandemic started Denmark have had a more less open border with Sweden. And we all know how relaxed Sweden has been when it comes to this virus. In the past four months over two hundred thousand Danes have returned to Danmark without being checked or put into quarantine. I mean, the government is making fool of all of us who have strictly followed all the epidemiological rules during the one of the most strict lockdowns in the world in March and April. And what is the result of our government's foolish approach? These days we have the same infection rate like in March. It's same in Spain, Germany, France and other European countries.
Do we really expect people to applaud the new lockdowns? Especially when the death and hospitalisation rate doesn't follow the infection rate? People aren't stupid.
The WHO and American CDC officials are telling us now that we we will never get rid of this virus. With other words, we have to accept continous lockdowns, masks and restrictions. Really? How come that New Zealand (and couple of other countries you mentioned in your post) have got rid of it? It can be done and it could and should have been done in March and April. But our politicians decided to flatten the curve and allow the virus to live among us. And now it's too late. Our economies can survive one short lockdown but not many of them. Collateral damage is going to be high: economies devastated, unemployment, mental health significantly worsened, suicides, social benefits cut to the bone (if any), young generations in dispair, wearing masks is going to be a rule, domestic abuse, alcohol and drug addiction increased...
Too many people will die from other diseases that are not being treated properly or not treated at all during the lockdowns.
In March we could have chosen New Zealand model, and now we have only one model left - the Swedish model. Everything else is a joke.
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
This is what’s happening with children in the US: all the data that’s fit to print
https://downloads.aap.org/AAP/PDF/A....30.20 FINAL.pdf?referringSource=articleShare
https://downloads.aap.org/AAP/PDF/A....30.20 FINAL.pdf?referringSource=articleShare
CroJack
Key Player
Disgusting.
"Runaway coronavirus infections, medical gear shortages and government inattention are woefully familiar stories in nursing homes around the globe. But Belgium’s response offers a gruesome twist: Paramedics and hospitals sometimes flatly denied care to elderly people, even as hospital beds sat unused.
Weeks earlier, the virus had overwhelmed hospitals in Italy. Determined to prevent that from happening in Belgium, the authorities shunned and all but ignored nursing homes. But while Italian doctors said they were forced to ration care to the elderly because of shortages of space and equipment, Belgium’s hospital system never came under similar strain.
Of all the missteps by governments during the coronavirus pandemic, few have had such an immediate and devastating impact as the failure to protect nursing homes. Tens of thousands of older people died — casualties not only of the virus, but of more than a decade of ignored warnings that nursing homes were vulnerable.
Public health officials around the world excluded nursing homes from their pandemic preparedness plans and omitted residents from the mathematical models used to guide their responses.
In recent months, the coronavirus outbreak in the United States has dominated global attention, as the world’s richest nation blundered its way into the world’s largest death toll. Some 40 percent of those fatalities have been linked to long-term-care facilities. But even now, European countries lead the world in per capita deaths, in part because of what happened inside their nursing homes."
Read more here:
When Covid-19 Hit, Many Elderly Were Left to Die
"Runaway coronavirus infections, medical gear shortages and government inattention are woefully familiar stories in nursing homes around the globe. But Belgium’s response offers a gruesome twist: Paramedics and hospitals sometimes flatly denied care to elderly people, even as hospital beds sat unused.
Weeks earlier, the virus had overwhelmed hospitals in Italy. Determined to prevent that from happening in Belgium, the authorities shunned and all but ignored nursing homes. But while Italian doctors said they were forced to ration care to the elderly because of shortages of space and equipment, Belgium’s hospital system never came under similar strain.
Of all the missteps by governments during the coronavirus pandemic, few have had such an immediate and devastating impact as the failure to protect nursing homes. Tens of thousands of older people died — casualties not only of the virus, but of more than a decade of ignored warnings that nursing homes were vulnerable.
Public health officials around the world excluded nursing homes from their pandemic preparedness plans and omitted residents from the mathematical models used to guide their responses.
In recent months, the coronavirus outbreak in the United States has dominated global attention, as the world’s richest nation blundered its way into the world’s largest death toll. Some 40 percent of those fatalities have been linked to long-term-care facilities. But even now, European countries lead the world in per capita deaths, in part because of what happened inside their nursing homes."
Read more here:
When Covid-19 Hit, Many Elderly Were Left to Die
CroJack
Key Player
And you know why?
Amateurs. The guards who have been working at the hotels, where New Zealand have people from abroad quarantined, were caught sleeping on their duty so the quarantined people fled from the hotels and spread the virus. There isn't any second wave there. It's a pure negligence.
How stupid one can be? Is it a huge problem to engage a military unit and do a a proper quarantine?
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CroJack
Key Player
Things that take 30 seconds or less: composing a tweet, paying your credit card bill and now thanks to Israeli company Nanoscent, taking a #Coronavirus test.
Watch
https://t.co/si3LWTa3Om
Watch
https://t.co/si3LWTa3Om
Yankee_Jack
Key Player
I heard an alarming thing last weekend from somebody that had taken a test at CVS - the national chain of chemists and acquirer of the Aetna health insurance firm. Apparently, the person went into the CVS store, requested a test, and the pharma tech handed the swabs to the person to swab themselves. If true and this is not isolated to that store or one test, then we're looking at a large volume of potential false negatives in Connecticut and nationally.
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